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forced meds & neglect to give meds

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voices

Junior Member
What is the name of your state? Michigan

My son was picked up and petioned by CMHS (Community Mental Health Service) worker to be commited to Phsyc ward.

he was told to allow them to give meds or they would tie him up and give them so he let them. (this was stated in court proccedings)

A hearing was held to keep him there and the CMHS worker did not show up

Unfortunatly the Judge had to let him out because there was no one who could say he ws a threat to himself or others.

so out the door he left no meds only instructions to call CMHS for help.

He did this ASAP as he was coming off the drugs and getting worse with bizzar thoughts.

24 hours later he commited 15 crimes (joy ridding or crash derby you might say) he was on a mission from god to save people

he then stood in a jail cell beating his head on bars and screaming untill they finally took him to a phsyc ward

forensics has found him not legaly resposible for his crimes. and competent to stand trial.

they are retesting for competency to stand trial (one judge did not think he was)

My Son is sitting in the jail waiting for testing results from the forensics' center, and then more court dates to come.

This would not be a problem if he were a well man.

He has a severe mental illness that has been addressed by the Psychiatric Hospital

He left there doing well with required meds to be given and to comply with mental health treatment plan and a court order to be sent back to the hospital if he does not comply.

When he first arrived back to the Jail his Shot, which was to be given every 2 weeks
Was not given. (Mental health worker thought is was too strong)

He was frightened in not knowing what to do how to get anything and sat there for three weeks before getting just the necessities soap toothbrush & paste and shampoo

I was told he would get them and trusted that he would.
On the third week I had let them know that I would show up and picket if that is what it would take for him to receive them.

He Calls me all the time for counseling because he does not know what to do and wonders what he did so bad that he is still there.

The cost of this counseling is seriously affecting our family's necessities in life.

He no longer has memory abilities he needs help in filling out his commissary paper.

There is currently no one seeing him for counseling and they are continually late on meds and discontinued one all together that is still needed.

He is currently fighting images in his head due to lack of medication.

I do not know if this is the Jails fault or Mental Health.

I do know that the mental health system is why he is there due to their Lack of appearing in court to justify why they had committed him before the crime spree that he went on.

He would have been in treatment instead of coming off the drugs they administered.
Mental health has said that if they go off there meds they are worse than before.

Please Understand that no one close to him including Himself knew about this condition. And we have had to school ourselves so we could better understand and help him

There are plenty of people who will tell you what a good, thoughtful, helpful, polite, and kind person he was,

I realize He will never be the same and needs extensive help to learn how to manage his life if that is possible or accepting that he will need a caregiver, either here with me or in foster care.

I have a home that I can put up for bond and don't have the cash unless it sells.

He has tried going off his meds and now realizes that he can't because it is like really really bad he tells me and he just can't do that any more.



the CMHS have had a fair chance at doing things right and continually fail.

1- no show on court hearing

2 - sending 3 blank release of information forms to be signed

3- creating a care plan without patient or guardian involvement and expect you to sign
Stating you were involved.

4- Holding meds from him.

5- No counseling

Thomas Insel - chief of the National Institute of Mental Health,
which funded the $20 million study - said the nation needs to
recognize that mental illness is a chronic condition that requires
expert medical attention just as heart disease, Alzheimer's and
diabetes do.

Having my son in jail is adding to his illness

I see him as acting about 7 yrs old at this time and I sit here helplessly heart broken over no way to really help him, other than costly phone conversations.

He was doing so well when he left the Hospital. I would like to see his condition return to that and move forward.

Any help out there? Voices
 


rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
How old is your son?
Are you his conservator?
Mental illness is not a "get out of jail free card".
Was your son on Street Drugs at any time?
 

loveumms

Member
If I am reading your post correctly, and can put together everything - it sounds like your son suffers from schizophrenia (a disease that often manifests itself in adolescence to early adulthood).

Sounds like he was acting out secondary to his hallucinations/delusions, a petition was granted to hospitalize him against his will (essentially he was EPed). He was then taken to a hospital and given medicines (assuming antipsychotics - sounds like haldol) which helped however, once he became more lucid wanted to be released (meaning they could no longer hold him against his will). A hearing was held where the mental health practitioner was not able to attend and your son was released. At the release, he was likely told by the judge to follow up with mental health (either a social worker who could find treatment programs or a psychiatrist). He didn't get the treatment he needed or medicines that were needed and committed several crimes.

The forensic psychiatrist that interviewed him found him not criminally responsible for his crimes - essentially meaning he was not in a state of mind that allowed him to understand his actions and the consequences those actions resulted in. However, they found him competent to stand trial - which means at the time of the interview, your son understood what goes on in a trial, what roles the judge/prosecutor/defense play and what he could possibly be facing (jail time, community service, ect). Now, he is awaiting another competency eval b/c someone didn’t think he could stand trial that the time he was re-evaluated by the judge and is currently in the jail. You feel that your son should not be in jail right now and that he needs mental help. Correct me if I’m wrong.

First, if the forensic psychiatrist who evaluated him felt he was competent to stand trial, it means they do not think that he needs further mental treatment at a psychiatric institution at this point in time. When a doctor evaluates someone for competency it results in either – the patient is not competent to stand trial and that patient will be sent to a mental facility to help bring them to a mental state where they are able to stand trial OR they are found competent which means they are mentally capable to go through a trial.

It does not mean that he receive no therapy (including medications) while in jail awaiting trial. He is likely on medications to help with the psychosis – believe me, no one in the correctional facilities wants to deal with someone who is floridly psychotic.

I don't think that you or your son can dictate how much medicine, or which medicines he requires. Mental health professionals are trained to determine that and there is no reason they would not give him enough or discontinue a certain med if they didn't think it was necessary. Furthermore, if your son is having memory problems it might be that he doesn't remember getting the medicine or the medicine he was given was causing memory problems and that is why it was discontinued.

Antipsychotics are very difficult to prescribe - they often take a prolonged time to 'build up' in a patients body (sometimes weeks) - meaning the patient may not see a benefit for several weeks, and often they have severe side effects (which become apparent within a week). Furthermore, if your son does have schizophrenia, he may not completely get rid of his hallucinations/delusions and it might be something he has to cope with (therapy may help with this).

I am not sure what you mean by he was not give the bare necessities - and find it very hard to believe that your son sat in jail for three weeks without getting anything at all. Is it possible that your son has some paranoia?

Unfortunately, the state cannot force your son to be held in an institution unless he is a danger to himself or others. They cannot force him to stay against his will, regardless of his mental status, unless he is homicidal or suicidal at which time they only can hold him for a certain amount of time. Even though your son has a mental disease, it is still his responsibility (and yours too if you care about him) to get him proper treatment. Many times schizophrenics will stop taking their medicines, even when they completely get rid of the hallucinations, b/c they are not pleasant medications to take (and have some side effects which are permanent).

It sounds like your son understands the need to take the medicines and slipped through the cracks when he was released – meaning he wasn’t able to get the help or medicines he needed. Even though you blame CMHS it sounds like he would have been released even if they were present b/c he was wanted to be released and they wouldn’t have had a reason to hold him.

Hope this helps some, and my heart goes out to you – mental illnesses are very difficult to deal with and schizophrenia is one of the hardest on families.
 

voices

Junior Member
Thank You for the reply
He is 26
He was a danger to himself on the first commitment that is why it was so important that the CMH worker show up for the hearing to keep him in she could have stated that he was a danger to himself.

He did not live with me and I had no idea what had occurred to put him there.
But I could see he was not right.

the law states they can not force drugs on them for 3 days until they have a hearing.
I assume this is because they do not know what they already have in them or in our case out the door and off they go. And that is why the Judge raised the issue with the doctor after the nurse had testified.

His first phone call was to CMH they gave him an appointment to be seen in 2 weeks. and there was no court order for this just recommendation from hospital release.

And Yes he was in complete denial of this and did not want the drugs, even though he needed them.

No he did not get a toothbrush paste or shampoo

the mental health worker thought that his shot was to strong after a Dr had just worked with him for 3 months adjusting his meds.

It took me 7 months for them to do a cat scan for his brain damage.
I feel this came after he beat his head on the bars for hours and then sent back to hospital for second time.

as of today he is 9 days over due for his shot. they are constantly late with it.
and the pill they discontinued for unknown reasons is only sennacot S they upped it and then quit.

I do not feel he should have went from extensive care to a cell all by himself.

Or the ACLU would not have suits filed against states for doing this. as it adds to there illness

I watched him go down hill that is why I want him to get proper medical treatment.

2 CMHS in surrounding county's have disassociated with our county's CMHS and I can see why.
I would not have a problem if they would just follow the laws here.

Last year a wonderful man killed by relative. who was released from our CMHS 2 weeks prior to killing him.

I also cared for one of there patients in a home where I worked and watched her go without meds several times.

I don't feel they are doing there jobs according to law.
 

loveumms

Member
Sennakot is a laxative - not a vital medication, and certianly not something that would signify neglect on the states part.

The state cannot be held responsible for what could happen - if that was the case then no criminal would be let back out into society. I can give you countless cases where a criminal was let out on bail and they went on to commit violent crimes (rape, assault, murder). Judges and mental health professionals cannot predict who will commit a crime - no on has a crystal ball. They can try and determine who may be dangerous to themselves or society. The CMH worker may have deemed your son safe to leave, especially if he wanted to get out and was cunning enough to say what he knew would get him out (he was not going to commit suicide if let out or he was not going to harm anyone else).

Courts don't always order people to get treatment. This is something the patient must seek on their own. If the state was in charge of forcing everyone released from their care onto the street to get mental health it just wouldn't work. There are too many criminals who must get treatment for the courts to keep count.

If you truly feel that your son is being mistreated, you should talk to his lawyer (I'm assuming its likely a public defender). See what kind of advice they can give you as to how to assure your son is receiving proper treatment since he/she will know more about his case.

It might be beneficial for you to find support groups for yourself, so you too can deal with his mental illness b/c even with proper treatment your son might be quit impaired. Furthermore, mental disease can cause people to say/do things they might not have before and your son might be smarter, or understand more then he is leading on. I'm not trying to say that he is lying to you about his conditions but, it is just something to think about especially if he has memory problems (since he may not remember what is going on).
 

voices

Junior Member
thanks for the reply

I just don't have time for this u r trying to be helpful and that is nice.

I spent lots of time with him in the hospital went to case reviews talked with his doctor

Paid a private DR to evaluate him

Paid for an attorney and am not worried about his crimes.

the few months prior to all of this he was changing I thought for the better in life for him

now I know that all the babbling of bible verses and the holier than thou were all and other stuff symptoms of this

I also know what the pills are... it is his shot that he is suppose to get every two weeks that is messing him up

I have read the mental laws and can clearly see they are not followed.

people who knew him before are shocked at what they see of him now. he will never be the same and I accept that and will stick by him as much as possible.

He has never hurt any one and I wish to keep it that way by helping as much as I can.

I only want what is best for him to be able to survive possibly on his own.

the brain damage has been noted by both Doctors

Thanks for your help
 

voices

Junior Member
rmet4nzkx said:
How old is your son? 26

Are you his conservator? legal guardian as of 2 months ago

Mental illness is not a "get out of jail free card". I only want what is medicaly best for him

Was your son on Street Drugs at any time?in the past; not prior to illness

Thank You for your concern.
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
voices said:
rmet4nzkx said:
How old is your son? 26

Are you his conservator? legal guardian as of 2 months ago

Mental illness is not a "get out of jail free card". I only want what is medicaly best for him

Was your son on Street Drugs at any time?in the past; not prior to illness

Thank You for your concern.
Your son is a little old for an initial psychotic break and if he is not responding as expected the the depot antipsychotic Rx he may have a different condition and may require more evaluation taking that into consideration. Has he had any psychological testing?
Has he finished high school, college? Was he social? Able to hold a job? Have reciporcal conversations? Was he ever reclusive? Geek? Suicidal? Difficulty making decisions or didn't seem to be able to follow direcitons? Trouble with abstraction? OCD, ADHD? Any head injuries prior to the more recent manifestations? A CT won't tell you any thing, if there is a history of head injury, please have him evaluated by a neuropsychologist.
 

voices

Junior Member
Thank You for that advice! at least you seem more in tune with what is going on.



facts 3 years old large overdose of LSD I was out of town and hospital would not let X sign for med treatment so it went through his system.

age 6 extensive testing diagnosis. dyslexia

age 17 takes blame for bio dad's theft from work and is sent to NY for 1 year in promise keeper org

18 in NY get a call from mental ward he was picked up for same as here running around with no shoes or coat bible babbling (no drugs were found in his system)

brought him back to MI finishes school got diploma

off and on with jobs, has a child, 2 broken relationships
the only head injury was falling out of tree that required some stitches 4 yrs ago,
lost part of 2 finger's moving logs, likes to collect junk cars and dumpster dive.

he has worked in foundry, McDonalds, Burgerking, sand blasting, and nursery work.
was currently living at a junk place helping a guy fix cars

he mainly smoked pot and had quit 2 or 3 months prior to this break out but the junk guy gave him some cocaine in that time span also he tells me.
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
At age 6 your son would have been diagnosed with Dyslexia, even if he had Asperger's Syndrome because it ws not an official diagnosis in the DSM-III at that time, not until 1994 when it was added to the DSM-IV. DO you or any of his providers have access to those testing records or any IQ test, they would be helpful. The facts you cite suggest that as a possibility expecially since the depot anti-psychotic didn't work. This disorder can be misdiagnosed as psychosis or psychotic breaks. A CT won't show it, a MRI might show some Right hemisphere deficits, but a good neuropsychological battery, either the HRNB or LURIA should clarify if that in fact is the cause. This would put him in a different catagory of developmental and opposed to mental health disability. It would account why his actions don't make sense. I would normally ask if he is clumbsy but you already answered that. Try this link and read case histories and see if it makes sense? http://www.faaas.org Very few medicaitons really help Asperger's if that is what he has, so being off the meds may in fact improve his behavior since the Rx often evoke the oppisite behaviors.
 

voices

Junior Member
Oh You are very very good! I can not thank you enough!
Yes I have all of his records and the old original hand typed testing results.
I used the same Psychologist as I did when he was 6 he was impressed that I still had them.

I divorced when my son was 2 remarried when he was 4 and at age 14 court let's them decide who they want to live with. So he went to live with a drug dealer / user, thief, woman abuser family history of mental health ( X's father was in and out of mental institution and severe alcoholic, sister is diagnosed bipolar 6 yrs ago and repeats everything) my son was used as a babysitter for my X's 3 kids

My son has continually said that he does not hear voices

He has said what ever it is has been following him since NY
this was told to me while under there drug therapy.

the thing I noticed most of all is his forehead day 2 in the Physic Ward before any of the car crashes

it looked like a finger had been placed under the skin just above the eye brows ... is this because of the sleep pattern he was having? ( he stayed with me on the week ends to have a nice place for his overnight weekend visits with his son.)

I am so hurt over his memory as this was his strongest point for learning

Yes his IQ was very high at 6

and the testing that was done at the physic ward could not be as complete as he wanted because of his ability

will these drugs cause permanent damage?

I can't do no more now I need a break I gave up my job and home 3 yrs ago to stay with my mother in law who has Alzheimer's

He is in jail and it is hard to help him from here. he sleeps 19 hours and cries all the time. he feels extremely bad and he never cried before.

I will get on this tomorrow some how.

Thank You so Very Much
Un heard Voices **************.....lol
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
Of course you are tired, you have a lot on your plate and reason to be frustrated. I'll bet if you had time to read the case histories on that link I provided you would see much that was familar in both your son and his father. Families do the best they can and it is not anyone's fauly that a diagnosis is difficult nor that the most recent attempts to test have more difficult, as the time required to test increases with age and declining function. You might want to look at the IQ scores and see if there is a 15 or greater difference between the VIQ and the PIQ. You are fortunate indeed to have copies of the old testing scores.

Please turn on your PM option and send me a PM.
 

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