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Hospital Visit and subsequent bills

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John_Gee

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? South Carolina

Sorry for the long first post guys.

Last month, I was hiking with some friends in the upstate of South Carolina. On the way back I fell and sprained my ankle. I was carried back to the trail head by park rangers and that is where the difficulties began.

At the trail head I was met by an ambulance. My injuries were not life threatening in any way and I asked the EMT if the rangers could take me back to the cabin where my friends were so that one of them could get me to a hospital for an X-Ray and he told me no. I was eventually billed $515 for the EMS ride and an ice pack on the way.

When we arrived at the hospital is when the real fun started. I got there around 8:00 P.M. and the room they were putting me in was not ready for me yet (another patient was leaving but not gone yet and then it had to be cleaned quickly). While waiting in the hallway, the registration clerk came back and took my insurance card and information.

In the room, a nurse held up my bad leg while I shifted myself off of the EMS stretcher and into the hospital bed. Everyone then left and a few minutes later a nurse brought me a Gatorade.

20 or 30 minutes after that, my friends arrived and it was almost another 30 minutes before a doctor came in and spoke to me. The initial consult was brief at best, it lasted about 1 minute. She poked my foot and ankle in a few places and asked what X-Ray had said. I told her I had not had an X-Ray yet and she said "okay, let's get you to X-Ray" another 30-40 minutes went by and the nurse came in and took me to X-Ray.

I was in X-Ray for 15 minutes and had 3 or 4 shots of my leg taken before the X-Ray tech brought me back to the emergency room.

Another 40 minutes went by and the doctor came back in and told me that my ankle was not broken. She gave me a prescription for pain killers and said that I would have to wear a splint on my ankle. I asked how long I should wear the splint (first sprained ankle) and she looked and sounded very annoyed but told me to keep it on until it didn't hurt anymore.

20 minutes later, the nurse returned and put a cheap plastic splint on my ankle and brought in a wheel chair to discharge me. He didn't help me get into the chair despite the obvious fact that I could not put weight on my left foot without a significant amount of pain. He wheeled me to the ER entrance and left me there with one of my friends until the other 2 drove up. At that point I had to lean on my friends to get to the car. This was a bit tricky because I weigh 260 pounds and the largest of my friends is probably around 160.

10 days later, I get a "this is not a bill" statement in the mail for $916. The breakdown was that $392 was for the X-Rays and $514 was for emergency room. I immediately contacted the billing department and no one has been able to tell me what the $514 charge is actually for. All they have said is that they bill based on trauma level and mine was a level 3 which is $514.

I have a high deductible insurance plan and have not met my deductible yet so I am responsible for the entire amount. My insurance was able to get an in network discount of $112 so now I only owe $804 but it still seems fairly high.

They have forwarded my complaint to the ER manager but have said that it can take up to 3 weeks to get a response.

This morning I learned that another $390 charge was sent to my insurance company. Ever the optimist, I assumed they had reviewed my case and adjusted my bill accordingly. It turns out that the ER doctors bill separately. So now I owe $1194 for a handful of X-Rays and a splint and another $515 for an ambulance ride that I did not need or want and requested to opt out of.

What are my options here? Am I hosed or can I fight this somehow? Was the hospital negligent at all in basically ignoring me for 3 hours and not assisting me as needed when I needed help getting out of bed or to the car? Was I required to take the EMS ride or did I have the right to opt out?
 


barry1817

Senior Member
medical

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? South Carolina

Sorry for the long first post guys.

Last month, I was hiking with some friends in the upstate of South Carolina. On the way back I fell and sprained my ankle. I was carried back to the trail head by park rangers and that is where the difficulties began.

At the trail head I was met by an ambulance. My injuries were not life threatening in any way and I asked the EMT if the rangers could take me back to the cabin where my friends were so that one of them could get me to a hospital for an X-Ray and he told me no. I was eventually billed $515 for the EMS ride and an ice pack on the way.

When we arrived at the hospital is when the real fun started. I got there around 8:00 P.M. and the room they were putting me in was not ready for me yet (another patient was leaving but not gone yet and then it had to be cleaned quickly). While waiting in the hallway, the registration clerk came back and took my insurance card and information.

In the room, a nurse held up my bad leg while I shifted myself off of the EMS stretcher and into the hospital bed. Everyone then left and a few minutes later a nurse brought me a Gatorade.

20 or 30 minutes after that, my friends arrived and it was almost another 30 minutes before a doctor came in and spoke to me. The initial consult was brief at best, it lasted about 1 minute. She poked my foot and ankle in a few places and asked what X-Ray had said. I told her I had not had an X-Ray yet and she said "okay, let's get you to X-Ray" another 30-40 minutes went by and the nurse came in and took me to X-Ray.

I was in X-Ray for 15 minutes and had 3 or 4 shots of my leg taken before the X-Ray tech brought me back to the emergency room.

Another 40 minutes went by and the doctor came back in and told me that my ankle was not broken. She gave me a prescription for pain killers and said that I would have to wear a splint on my ankle. I asked how long I should wear the splint (first sprained ankle) and she looked and sounded very annoyed but told me to keep it on until it didn't hurt anymore.

20 minutes later, the nurse returned and put a cheap plastic splint on my ankle and brought in a wheel chair to discharge me. He didn't help me get into the chair despite the obvious fact that I could not put weight on my left foot without a significant amount of pain. He wheeled me to the ER entrance and left me there with one of my friends until the other 2 drove up. At that point I had to lean on my friends to get to the car. This was a bit tricky because I weigh 260 pounds and the largest of my friends is probably around 160.

10 days later, I get a "this is not a bill" statement in the mail for $916. The breakdown was that $392 was for the X-Rays and $514 was for emergency room. I immediately contacted the billing department and no one has been able to tell me what the $514 charge is actually for. All they have said is that they bill based on trauma level and mine was a level 3 which is $514.

I have a high deductible insurance plan and have not met my deductible yet so I am responsible for the entire amount. My insurance was able to get an in network discount of $112 so now I only owe $804 but it still seems fairly high.

They have forwarded my complaint to the ER manager but have said that it can take up to 3 weeks to get a response.

This morning I learned that another $390 charge was sent to my insurance company. Ever the optimist, I assumed they had reviewed my case and adjusted my bill accordingly. It turns out that the ER doctors bill separately. So now I owe $1194 for a handful of X-Rays and a splint and another $515 for an ambulance ride that I did not need or want and requested to opt out of.

What are my options here? Am I hosed or can I fight this somehow? Was the hospital negligent at all in basically ignoring me for 3 hours and not assisting me as needed when I needed help getting out of bed or to the car? Was I required to take the EMS ride or did I have the right to opt out?
always find it amazing that when a patient wants to opt out, and are told that they can't, it is usually done with the assumption that insurance will cover the costs. This assumption creates so many problems.

Unfortunately ER treatment is highly expensive because of government forcing all people to be treated, no matter what citizenship status is, or insurance status is, and those costs then have to be passed on to those that can pay.

You can look to negotiate with them, and the best way to negotiate is to ask your insurance what they would have paid if you had no deductible, which is usually less than patient that pay cash, and offer that amount.

Or you could not pay the bill and let them try to collect, which for this amount they may not pursue, but would but it on your credit report, or try a compromise with payment over time.
 

lealea1005

Senior Member
Barry...According to OP, insurance already deducted the network discount.

OP, you chose a high deductible plan. What you received is an explanation of benefits from your insurance company. Once the hospital, Radiologist, ER Physician receive their copies of the EOB, they will bill you for the remaining amount. Yes, you are responsible to pay the bill, but should not receive a bill until the providers receive their EOBs. The amounts aren't unreasonable for the services you received at an Emergency room .

ETA: how is this even remotely malpractice?
 
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John_Gee

Junior Member
Barry...According to OP, insurance already deducted the network discount.

OP, you chose a high deductible plan. What you received is an explanation of benefits from your insurance company. Once the hospital, Radiologist, ER Physician receive their copies of the EOB, they will bill you for the remaining amount. Yes, you are responsible to pay the bill, but should not receive a bill until the providers receive their EOBs. The amounts aren't unreasonable for the services you received at an Emergency room .

ETA: how is this even remotely malpractice?
I am not arguing that I am responsible for the full amount. Yes, I chose the high deductible plan because I rarely use more than a few hundred dollars of medical services in a year and most of that is spent on checkups.

What I received was NOT an EOB. I know what an EOB is. It comes from the insurance company while the statement I received came directly from the hospital.

While it is true that I was treated in an Emergency room, I think $1700 for an ambulance ride I was forced into, a handful of X-Rays, a $20 ankle splint and a Gatorade is a bit excessive.

It probably isn't malpractice. I couldn't find another forum on here that came closer to what my question is about so I picked this one. If you have a suggestion, I'd love to hear it and I will request that this thread be moved there ASAP.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
I am not arguing that I am responsible for the full amount. Yes, I chose the high deductible plan because I rarely use more than a few hundred dollars of medical services in a year and most of that is spent on checkups.

What I received was NOT an EOB. I know what an EOB is. It comes from the insurance company while the statement I received came directly from the hospital.

While it is true that I was treated in an Emergency room, I think $1700 for an ambulance ride I was forced into, a handful of X-Rays, a $20 ankle splint and a Gatorade is a bit excessive.

It probably isn't malpractice. I couldn't find another forum on here that came closer to what my question is about so I picked this one. If you have a suggestion, I'd love to hear it and I will request that this thread be moved there ASAP.
Funny - *I* thought the numbers you stated sounded very reasonable...bordering on CHEAP.
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
Funny - *I* thought the numbers you stated sounded very reasonable...bordering on CHEAP.


Agreed.

The last ER visit enjoyed by my family ended up with a bill in excess of $3k - without the ambulance ride.

Those pesky x-rays aren't cheap...
 

John_Gee

Junior Member
I have been to the ER before. I have been taken in an ambulance before. I have had X-Rays before.

I have never had a pre-insurance bill that even came close to half of this amount.

Prior to this, my last ER visit was for a puncture wound directly above my right knee. Long Story.

The ER visit included a consult with a doctor, a nurse examining, treating and dressing the wound and the ER gave me some tape, gauze and bacitracin so I could dress the wound at home as needed. I was home an hour after I arrived at the ER. The pre-insurance bill for that was $200 for the ER visit and another $160 for the physician consult.

Now the X-Rays and the Physician consult were billed separately so those cannot be included in the $514 Emergency Room charge. That means that the $514 is for a splint, a Gatorade and the privilege of being all but ignored for almost 3 hours.

I wouldn't have a problem with the ambulance charge except I asked to opt out and was told that I couldn't. The only impairment I was suffering at the time was that I couldn't bear weight on my left ankle and I was possibly a little dehydrated because I had been hiking all day so the argument cannot be made that I wasn't capable of making an informed decision.

So please explain to me how these numbers seem "reasonable" or even "cheap" to you.
 

barry1817

Senior Member
medical

I have been to the ER before. I have been taken in an ambulance before. I have had X-Rays before.

I have never had a pre-insurance bill that even came close to half of this amount.

Prior to this, my last ER visit was for a puncture wound directly above my right knee. Long Story.

The ER visit included a consult with a doctor, a nurse examining, treating and dressing the wound and the ER gave me some tape, gauze and bacitracin so I could dress the wound at home as needed. I was home an hour after I arrived at the ER. The pre-insurance bill for that was $200 for the ER visit and another $160 for the physician consult.

Now the X-Rays and the Physician consult were billed separately so those cannot be included in the $514 Emergency Room charge. That means that the $514 is for a splint, a Gatorade and the privilege of being all but ignored for almost 3 hours.

I wouldn't have a problem with the ambulance charge except I asked to opt out and was told that I couldn't. The only impairment I was suffering at the time was that I couldn't bear weight on my left ankle and I was possibly a little dehydrated because I had been hiking all day so the argument cannot be made that I wasn't capable of making an informed decision.

So please explain to me how these numbers seem "reasonable" or even "cheap" to you.
from the many posts that I have read and seen, cheap always seems to be the comment from others, when a person complains about a cost that in the real world, your world, seems very large.

I would then ask, for those that think that this is cheap, if they were forced to take an ambulance instead of a friend driving them, if they would find the fee cheap. As you said you could easily have done that.

And I am betting that your friends had to follow you in order to take you home, so they could just as easily taken you.
 

ajkroy

Member
You are also getting off "cheap" with the three hours part of it, too. I've seen many sprained ankles in ERs wait three times that when it gets busy. :rolleyes:

OP, if you felt so strongly about this, you should have refused the ambulance ride (they carry a waiver that you must sign for exactly this reason) and imposed on your diminutive friends even further to get you to less expensive, more timely medical care.

You still need to pay the bill.
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
from the many posts that I have read and seen, cheap always seems to be the comment from others, when a person complains about a cost that in the real world, your world, seems very large.

I would then ask, for those that think that this is cheap, if they were forced to take an ambulance instead of a friend driving them, if they would find the fee cheap. As you said you could easily have done that.

And I am betting that your friends had to follow you in order to take you home, so they could just as easily taken you.

Nobody said anything about the ability to pay, or how the amount relates to OP's actual financial situation.

OP's costs are truly, considerably less expensive than the vast majority of ER visits experienced by my family. Hence the use of the word "cheap". It IS cheap by comparison.

Don't assume that responders are automatically dissing on the OP.
 

John_Gee

Junior Member
You are also getting off "cheap" with the three hours part of it, too. I've seen many sprained ankles in ERs wait three times that when it gets busy. :rolleyes:

OP, if you felt so strongly about this, you should have refused the ambulance ride (they carry a waiver that you must sign for exactly this reason) and imposed on your diminutive friends even further to get you to less expensive, more timely medical care.

You still need to pay the bill.
It was an emergency room in rural South Carolina...I doubt it ever gets that busy.

I did refuse the ambulance ride. The EMT told me I couldn't and never mentioned a waiver.
 

justalayman

Senior Member
yes, you could absolutely refuse the ambulance ride. They cannot force you to undertake any medical treatment against your wishes. The problem is, you wanted to skip the ambo ride and use the rangers as a taxi to get you back to your cabin. The rangers aren't taxi drivers so, you had the option of taking the ambo ride or finding your own way to your cabin. Since you complained about not getting any help into the wheelchair, I suspect you did not have the ability to get to your cabin on your own. So, you ended up with an ambo ride.


sounds like your ER visit was actually quit quick considering the type of injury.


Yes, doctors charge separately. Since you have been to an ER before, you should have noticed it before. It is simply due to the manner in which the hospital and attending physicians relationships are structured.

So, we are down to it cost more than you though it should. Well, you could have waited until your doctors office was open and go there. If they have an x-ray department there, they could have done the same thing you had done at the hospital for a lot less money.

the $514 Emergency Room charge. That means that the $514 is for a splint
I wouldn't be surprised to see that didn't include the splint. The charge for the ER room is exactly that; the ER department charges you to be attended to in their ER room. It isn't any different than if you were admitted and you received a daily room charge for being in the hospital.
 

lealea1005

Senior Member
Now the X-Rays and the Physician consult were billed separately so those cannot be included in the $514 Emergency Room charge. That means that the $514 is for a splint, a Gatorade and the privilege of being all but ignored for almost 3 hours.
You weren't ignored. You were properly triaged according to the severity of your injury. The Physician/staff may have been occupied with patients who had more emergent issues.

Yes, I chose the high deductible plan because I rarely use more than a few hundred dollars of medical services in a year and most of that is spent on checkups.
Except this year. It's the chance one takes with that kind of plan. Having an individual high deductible plan myself, I totally get that.
 

John_Gee

Junior Member
The problem is, you wanted to skip the ambo ride and use the rangers as a taxi to get you back to your cabin. The rangers aren't taxi drivers
I probably should have mentioned this before but
  • The rangers actually offered to take me back to the cabin before we got off the trail
  • A friend of mine was with me and they drove him back to the cabin

Had that option not been available, my friends could have come to get me in the parking lot at the trail head.

Either way, I was not allowed to refuse the ambulance ride and I couldn't simply get up and leave on my own because I was strapped to a stretcher and could not undo the restraints...
 

John_Gee

Junior Member
Just out of curiosity, of the respondents so far, how many of you are knowledgeable about legal matters?

I only ask because I didn't post this thread to get opinions on whether or not the cost was appropriate, I posted to find out if there are any legal grounds on which I can contest the charges.

I asked a handful of questions in my first post and only one of those has been answered so far. The rest of the posting has been an argument over what is and isn't cheap medical care...:rolleyes:
 

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