• FreeAdvice has a new Terms of Service and Privacy Policy, effective May 25, 2018.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our Terms of Service and use of cookies.

Incompetant but making pricey decisions

Accident - Bankruptcy - Criminal Law / DUI - Business - Consumer - Employment - Family - Immigration - Real Estate - Tax - Traffic - Wills   Please click a topic or scroll down for more.

CMSC

Senior Member
What is the name of your state? Nebraska

Not 100% certain where to post this. My mother has Multiple Sclerosis and after 20+years of battling this disease it has taken it's toll on her mentally. My brothers and I have not had her declared incompetant because we just can't bring ourselves to do it. My mother has good days where she speaks clearly and is coherant but other days where she has slurred speech and doesn't clearly understand the things around her.

We are currently having issues with a new doctor who is doing acupuncture on my mother's hand. My oldest brother and I do not feel our mom made an informed decision and it is costing her. Although the acupuncture may work as a short term fix, preventative care by the nursing home would have been better in the long run and more cost effective. My mother is on medicaid and has some secondary insurance. Neither of which cover the acupuncture. Right now her bill is $240, my brother manages her bank account and there is no way she can continue on with this expense.

My question is how do we enforce our decision that this is an unnecessary expense? It is for a sore on her hand, which would not be there if the nursing home took better care of her and taken her to a doctor asap instead of sitting on their thumbs! The hospital is threatening to go to a credit agency, they could end up taking what little she has in a burial fund to pay for the expense. We don't want that to happen to her. We would pay the $240 ourselves but want the procedures to stop until it is covered by insurance. They Dr. refuses saying my mother wants this, I believe he told her it would do her hand some good and she agreed. If he told her it wouldn't work she would agree too. If the sky was purple and he said it was red she'd agree.

We don't want to take her mental competancy status away from her but need to figure out how to get some control over medical procedures.

Thank you, if this is the wrong forum I'll be happy to move my question, just guide tell me where.
 


panzertanker

Senior Member
CMSC said:
My question is how do we enforce our decision that this is an unnecessary expense?
Without declaring her mentally unable to make her own decisions; YOU don't.


CMSC said:
We don't want to take her mental competancy status away from her but need to figure out how to get some control over medical procedures.

Thank you, if this is the wrong forum I'll be happy to move my question, just guide tell me where.
YOU and you brother do not get to have a say in her business unless you are appointed guardian. The only way I know how to do that is have her examined and then documented as incompetent, OR have her sign over POA to you/your brother. At the moment, you both are little more than interested parties with no power in the law's eyes...
 

CMSC

Senior Member
panzertanker said:
Without declaring her mentally unable to make her own decisions; YOU don't.



YOU and you brother do not get to have a say in her business unless you are appointed guardian. The only way I know how to do that is have her examined and then documented as incompetent, OR have her sign over POA to you/your brother. At the moment, you both are little more than interested parties with no power in the law's eyes...
Thank you, I was just hoping there was another way besides taking away her dignity. I'm just concerned that this doctor will start recommending procedures knowing she will just agree with him no matter what.
My brother has POA but the doctors office says it is only for handling her accounts and affairs not her medical decisions.
 

panzertanker

Senior Member
CMSC said:
My brother has POA but the doctors office says it is only for handling her accounts and affairs not her medical decisions.
He will need her durable POA that allows him to make healthcare decisions.
I understand your concern over "taking her dignity", but she obviously needs protection from her inability to make informed and rational decisions. Good Luck.
 

ellencee

Senior Member
panzertanker said:
He will need her durable POA that allows him to make healthcare decisions.
I understand your concern over "taking her dignity", but she obviously needs protection from her inability to make informed and rational decisions. Good Luck.
The mother cannot give anyone a durable power of attorney or healthcare proxy if she is mentally incompetent, which I doubt she is, at least not from MS. The mother may have periods of interrupted thought processes, but MS does not cause continuous dementia or permanent loss of the ability to manage one's affairs.

If the mother truly has no estate and no funds and the son has POA over finances, the son can send a certified letter, return receipt requested, to the MD and state that as POA, he cannot accept further billing for treatment as there are no funds with which to make payment and no insurance benefit(s) to pay for further treatment. The son can also state that during times when his mother is unable to make rational decisions, those who take advantage of her are subjecting themselves to charges of elder abuse.

EC
 
Last edited:

CMSC

Senior Member
ellencee said:
but MS does not cause continuous dementia or permanent loss of the ability to manage one's affairs.
EC
I've seen many people in the 20+ yrs. my mother has had MS that no longer have the ability to manage their own affairs. Memory loss IS something that comes with MS, so is the inability to complete multiple tasks at once.

I'll talk with my brother about the POA.
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
CMSC said:
I've seen many people in the 20+ yrs. my mother has had MS that no longer have the ability to manage their own affairs. Memory loss IS something that comes with MS, so is the inability to complete multiple tasks at once.

I'll talk with my brother about the POA.
Is your mom taking Provigil?
 

panzertanker

Senior Member
ellencee said:
The mother cannot give anyone a durable power of attorney or healthcare proxy if she is mentally incompetent, which I doubt she is, at least not from MS. The mother may have periods of interrupted thought processes, but MS does not cause continuous dementia or permanent loss of the ability to manage one's affairs.

If the mother truly has no estate and no funds and the son has POA over finances, the son can send a certified letter, return receipt requested, to the MD and state that as POA, he cannot accept further billing for treatment as there are no funds with which to make payment and no insurance benefit(s) to pay for further treatment. The son can also state that during times when his mother is unable to make rational decisions, those who take advantage of her are subjecting themselves to charges of elder abuse.

EC
I agree, but I did not state that he would get POA from her; I stated he needed to get it. This would involve the court system, and "taking away her dignity" as OP states is her feeling of getting POA through the courts.
Regardless, durable Medical POA MUST be obtained to legally help this patient.
 

BlondiePB

Senior Member
panzertanker said:
I agree, but I did not state that he would get POA from her; I stated he needed to get it. This would involve the court system, and "taking away her dignity" as OP states is her feeling of getting POA through the courts.
Regardless, durable Medical POA MUST be obtained to legally help this patient.
Courts appoint a Health Care Surrogate/Proxy for one to legally make medical decisions when a person is not competent/capable to make his/her own medical decisions.

How's it going up there, "hotty"?
 

CMSC

Senior Member
rmet4nzkx said:
Is your mom taking Provigil?
No last we checked Provigil had not been approved by the FDA for use in MS patients. Also the side effects of blurred vision, dizziness and confusion were side effects her doctor didn't think she should mess with.
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
CMSC said:
No last we checked Provigil had not been approved by the FDA for use in MS patients. Also the side effects of blurred vision, dizziness and confusion were side effects her doctor didn't think she should mess with.
Provigil is widely used by persons with MS and it may help with vision problems etc. It is used off lable for persons with head injuries and MS. It can be a Godsend. The lower dose was found to be more effective than the higher dose. Is this the same doctor giving the accupuncture putting down Provigil?
http://www.nationalmssociety.org/Meds-modafinil.asp
 

CMSC

Senior Member
rmet4nzkx said:
Provigil is widely used by persons with MS and it may help with vision problems etc. It is used off lable for persons with head injuries and MS. It can be a Godsend. The lower dose was found to be more effective than the higher dose. Is this the same doctor giving the accupuncture putting down Provigil?
http://www.nationalmssociety.org/Meds-modafinil.asp
No it isn't the same doctor. My understanding in talking with my brother is that the Provigil is not covered by her insurance until it is FDA approved, she has some insurance that's provided through my deceased father's old employer and the rest is covered by medicaid. Her caseworker said medicaid would not cover any of the Provigil and there is no generic so we didn't research the cost of it yet.

The national MS society is the first place we look for all treatments, what an abundant amount of information. On the days our mom is as much herself as she can be, she says the acupuncture works, but she truly can't afford it.:(
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
CMSC said:
No it isn't the same doctor. My understanding in talking with my brother is that the Provigil is not covered by her insurance until it is FDA approved, she has some insurance that's provided through my deceased father's old employer and the rest is covered by medicaid. Her caseworker said medicaid would not cover any of the Provigil and there is no generic so we didn't research the cost of it yet.

The national MS society is the first place we look for all treatments, what an abundant amount of information. On the days our mom is as much herself as she can be, she says the acupuncture works, but she truly can't afford it.:(
Perhaps her neurologist can provide some samples for a trial and if it works, the doc can Rx the 200mg pill and split the pills for the 100 mg dose bringing the cost down to somthing managable. Also if her neurologist Rx it they may be able to get a waiver for the formulary. It is worth looking into and you may be surprised how well it works.
 

CMSC

Senior Member
rmet4nzkx said:
Perhaps her neurologist can provide some samples for a trial and if it works, the doc can Rx the 200mg pill and split the pills for the 100 mg dose bringing the cost down to somthing managable. Also if her neurologist Rx it they may be able to get a waiver for the formulary. It is worth looking into and you may be surprised how well it works.
She no longer sees a neurologist so I'll have to locate a new one. I gave the information to my brother last night and am hoping we can get her to understand the pros/cons on a good day. I have 2 brothers, one of them closer in distance to our mom(I'm 20 hours away and my other brother is 5 hours away) who thinks mom is never going to get better and I think he puts the bug in her ear about most medical decisions. We'll see, thanks for the information.
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
CMSC said:
She no longer sees a neurologist so I'll have to locate a new one. I gave the information to my brother last night and am hoping we can get her to understand the pros/cons on a good day. I have 2 brothers, one of them closer in distance to our mom(I'm 20 hours away and my other brother is 5 hours away) who thinks mom is never going to get better and I think he puts the bug in her ear about most medical decisions. We'll see, thanks for the information.
It would be nice if it allowed her to have more "better" days! Keep us updated.
 

Find the Right Lawyer for Your Legal Issue!

Fast, Free, and Confidential
data-ad-format="auto">
Top