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Medical team in non medical faculty

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Twinkie1

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

If there is a "medical team" to help people in case of a medical urgency/emergency at a non-medical facility, a church in this case, can the person or the church be liable if a person's condition worsens or dies because of incorrect action, e.g. incorrect CPR technique?
The medical team would be a group of volunteers with some medical experience having an official role with name badges. Does the Good Samaritan's Law protect from liability?
 


quincy

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

If there is a "medical team" to help people in case of a medical urgency/emergency at a non-medical facility, a church in this case, can the person or the church be liable if a person's condition worsens or dies because of incorrect action, e.g. incorrect CPR technique?
The medical team would be a group of volunteers with some medical experience having an official role with name badges. Does the Good Samaritan's Law protect from liability?
Your medical team should either be composed of medical professionals trained in emergency medical care or they should not be designated as a medical team. Incompetence could be costly, especially if people are led to believe the medical team knows what they are doing.

Under California's Good Samaritan law, you have little protection from suit if you do not have medical training (e.g., are not a paramedic, a doctor, a firefighter).

Here is a link to the law: http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=HSC&sectionNum=1799.102
 
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Twinkie1

Junior Member
Thanks for the info. That's good to know regarding Good Samaritan's law. I think many people assume it protects them, no matter who they are.
 

paddywakk

Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

If there is a "medical team" to help people in case of a medical urgency/emergency at a non-medical facility, a church in this case, can the person or the church be liable if a person's condition worsens or dies because of incorrect action, e.g. incorrect CPR technique?
The medical team would be a group of volunteers with some medical experience having an official role with name badges. Does the Good Samaritan's Law protect from liability?
I'd check with the local Red Cross office about some CPR and first aid classes.
 

quincy

Senior Member
I'd check with the local Red Cross office about some CPR and first aid classes.
Although it is a good idea for everyone to know CPR and basic first aid, this still does not prevent a lawsuit if you are not a paramedic, firefighter, law enforcement officer or medical professional and you still choose to render aid in an emergency.

The "good Samaritan" law offers immunity from civil actions only to these professionals.

In other words, even if everyone attending the church has Red Cross training in CPR and first aid, they are not immune from suit. They should not label themselves a "medical team" so that people rely on them having a level of expertise they do not possess.

To avoid a lawsuit, any layman thinking of aiding in an emergency needs to be careful. The law does not protect laymen for acts or omissions committed that can be seen as contributing to greater injury. Calling 911 can often be the best action for someone to take in an emergency.
 
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ecmst12

Senior Member
Best thing any facility where people will be gathering on a regular basis can do is get an AED, and make sure people know where it is.
 

quincy

Senior Member
Best thing any facility where people will be gathering on a regular basis can do is get an AED, and make sure people know where it is.
AEDs are easy to use as the machine itself walks you through the steps ... but an AED will not cover all emergencies and, again, if used improperly or unnecessarily by a "good Samaritan," the good Samaritan can be sued.

Here is a link to California's AED laws and how they apply to good Samaritans: https://www.onlineoversight.com/aed_laws/state/ca

The good Samaritan law in California was revised a few years ago to provide more protection from suit for good Samaritans coming to the aid of others in an emergency, this after a good Samaritan was sued by the person whose life she saved (Van Horn v. Watson, 45 Cal. 4th 322, 197 P.3d 164, 86 Cal. Rptr. 3d 350 S152360, 2008: http://scocal.stanford.edu/opinion/van-horn-v-watson-33099), but the law still does not provide immunity from suit for laypersons.

The way many laws are worded, the way people in the US like to sue, and the number of lawyers who are willing to take on cases that probably should never make it to court, it is unfortunately legally safest for people to control their instincts to help someone in distress and simply call 911 instead. As soon as a person steps in to help a person, they have established a duty to that person and have opened themselves up to a lawsuit.
 
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Shadowbunny

Queen of the Not-Rights
You may be better off just designating a group of people who would ensure that 911 is actually called. Too often, since almost everyone has a cell phone, there's an assumption that "someone else" has called.

Quincy, do you see any dangers to that plan?
 

FlyingRon

Senior Member
The "good Samaritan" law offers immunity from civil actions only to these professionals.
In general, good samaritan law applies to people who act in situations where they normally have no duty to act. Normally, that means lay persons. In California and some other states, the laws covering medical personel however does provide protection when they respond in emergency situations.

Anyhow, here's the actual California provisions from the Health & Safety code (no matter what you want to call it):

1799.102. No person who in good faith, and not for compensation,
renders emergency care at the scene of an emergency shall be liable
for any civil damages resulting from any act or omission. The scene
of an emergency shall not include emergency departments and other
places where medical care is usually offered.

1799.104. (a) No physician or nurse, who in good faith gives
emergency instructions to an EMT-II or mobile intensive care
paramedic at the scene of an emergency, shall be liable for any civil
damages as a result of issuing the instructions.
(b) No EMT-II or mobile intensive care paramedic rendering care
within the scope of his duties who, in good faith and in a
nonnegligent manner, follows the instructions of a physician or nurse
shall be liable for any civil damages as a result of following such
instructions.

1799.106. In addition to the provisions of Section 1799.104 of this
code and of Section 1714.2 of the Civil Code and in order to
encourage the provision of emergency medical services by
firefighters, police officers or other law enforcement officers,
EMT-I, EMT-II, or EMT-P, a firefighter, police officer or other law
enforcement officer, EMT-I, EMT-II, or EMT-P who renders emergency
medical services at the scene of an emergency shall only be liable
in civil damages for acts or omissions performed in a grossly
negligent manner or acts or omissions not performed in good faith. A
public agency employing such a firefighter, police officer or other
law enforcement officer, EMT-I, EMT-II, or EMT-P shall not be liable
for civil damages if the firefighter, police officer or other law
enforcement officer, EMT-I, EMT-II, or EMT-P is not liable.
 

quincy

Senior Member
In general, good samaritan law applies to people who act in situations where they normally have no duty to act. Normally, that means lay persons. In California and some other states, the laws covering medical personel however does provide protection when they respond in emergency situations.
The good Samaritan laws across the country vary substantially, ranging in a few states to a mandatory duty for residents to act to help another under certain circumstances (with fines if you don't) to in other states covering only those like medical professionals or law enforcement officers who assist at, say, the scene of a car accident.

It was the placement of the law in the Health and Safety Code under "Emergency Medical Services" that led to problems with the California law originally, as it was decided by California's Supreme Court that the law applied to medical services only (and not to rescue services like pulling someone from a lake or a burning car).

It was injuries suffered by a passenger in a car accident, after a good Samaritan pulled her from the car, that led to the lawsuit in the Van Horn case cited earlier, and it was this case that led to 2016 revisions in the law.

The 2016 revisions, however, still leave open the door to lawsuits against laypersons who aid in an emergency. There is no immunity from suit. The law only serves to limit civil liability in certain circumstances.

One concern in what Twinkie1 describes is the labeling of laypeople as a "medical team" if they are not medical professionals. That can be misleading and deceive people into thinking this "team" is something they are not. Another concern is that, if one of these laypeople were to harm an injured person by using an incorrect procedure or technique, that person could be sued. The good Samaritan law does not provide protection to a person who fumbles in their role as a good Samaritan.

You would hope that the majority of people who see someone in need of emergency help will assist that person. That is what makes for saved lives and heroes.

But it also makes for lawsuits.

I think your suggestion is a good one, Shadowbunny. At least, I cannot see a lawsuit in it (although I suppose some shifty, shady lawyer could find a lawsuit in there somewhere :D). And all of the other suggestions are good ones, too (the AED, the CPR, the first aid training). They are just not enough to prevent a lawsuit.

There was a thread on this forum several years ago that discussed good Samaritan laws. If I locate it I will provide a link ...

... yikes, I have been on this forum a long time. The thread is from 2008 and is slightly on-topic (forum members wandered off topic a lot ;)): https://forum.freeadvice.com/other-crimes-federal-state-4/choice-murder-412679.html
 
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ecmst12

Senior Member
An AED will not discharge if the proper conditions are not detected, so using it unnecessarily will not cause harm. Of course, calling 911 is always the most important thing.
 

quincy

Senior Member
An AED will not discharge if the proper conditions are not detected, so using it unnecessarily will not cause harm. Of course, calling 911 is always the most important thing.
I agree that in an emergency someone should call 911 if it is possible to do so. Calling 911 is certainly the safest thing to do from a legal standpoint.
 

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