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  1. #1
    jrsec is offline Junior Member
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    Minor treated without consent

    What is the name of your state? MI

    My 17 year old son cut the end of his finger off last week at work and he was taken to a Concentra clinic for care. While en route he called and my Wife and I met him there as he was singing in. When the "nurse" came to take him back, my Wife and I were told to sit down and that they would come to get us in a moment. After 10 minutes or so, my Wife began to get concerned with why we had not been asked to come back to see the procedure and I flagged the nurse down. When the nurse came to the desk she was on her cell phone and asked us to wait. By the time she was off her phone my son walked out from the exam area with his hand bandaged. When I questioned the PA who treated him about what he had done he rudely told me "you can ask you son and he will explain it." I then asked if it was the policy of the clinic to treat minors without parental consent and not allow the parents to see the medical care that the child is receiving. The PA responded by telling me that it was their policy to not allow parents to see the care and that I must sign a document attesting to my son's care. I did not sign the waiver and we promptly left and took him to a proper emergency room to be sure that he had received appropriate care.

    Is what happened here legal? Can a clinic refuse to let the parents see what is being done to their minor child and can they treat him without our consent even though we were present?What is the name of your state?
  2. #2
    lya
    lya is offline Senior Member
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    Your son sought emergency treatment and emergency treatment does not require parental consent.

    Most states allow teenaged children to seek medical treatment without parental consent, requiring only, in some circumstances, that the parent(s) be notified (NOT that the parent consent). Your son notified you and your physical being was at the facility; you were notified.

    Your son is employed and drives his own car. He is not a little kid who needs mommy and daddy in the treatment room. If he had needed you, he would have asked for you; he didn't.

    FYI--the nurse was most likely NOT on a cellphone but on a cordless phone as is used in healthcare settings. Cellphones interfere with medical equipment; cordless phones do not.

    Your son has a "workers comp claim" injury. If he has not filed a workers comp claim, now is your chance to have input. Make sure he files a workers comp claim and that he consults with a workers comp attorney.
  3. #3
    barry1817 is offline Senior Member
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    17 year old treated

    Quote Originally Posted by jrsec View Post
    What is the name of your state? MI

    My 17 year old son cut the end of his finger off last week at work and he was taken to a Concentra clinic for care. While en route he called and my Wife and I met him there as he was singing in. When the "nurse" came to take him back, my Wife and I were told to sit down and that they would come to get us in a moment. After 10 minutes or so, my Wife began to get concerned with why we had not been asked to come back to see the procedure and I flagged the nurse down. When the nurse came to the desk she was on her cell phone and asked us to wait. By the time she was off her phone my son walked out from the exam area with his hand bandaged. When I questioned the PA who treated him about what he had done he rudely told me "you can ask you son and he will explain it." I then asked if it was the policy of the clinic to treat minors without parental consent and not allow the parents to see the medical care that the child is receiving. The PA responded by telling me that it was their policy to not allow parents to see the care and that I must sign a document attesting to my son's care. I did not sign the waiver and we promptly left and took him to a proper emergency room to be sure that he had received appropriate care.

    Is what happened here legal? Can a clinic refuse to let the parents see what is being done to their minor child and can they treat him without our consent even though we were present?What is the name of your state?
    Was the treatment wrong?

    There can be problems with treatment of a minor without consent, especially since you met your son at the hospital, but really if he was treated in a timely manner I dont' understand why you would want to even think about pursuing such a claim against health care providers that were looking to do their best for your son.

    [email]Barry1817@aol.com[/email]
  4. #4
    jrsec is offline Junior Member
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    Response to post by Lya

    It is odd for Lya to make so many assumptions about whether I can tell the difference between a cell and cordless phone, and about whether my son asked for us to be present. Two things Lya:
    1: I know the difference between a cordless and cellular phone, do you?
    2: My son called and asked us to be there and be present for the treatment. Obviously you are either and normally callous person
    cal·lous /ˈkæləs/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[kal-uhs] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
    –adjective
    1. made hard; hardened.
    2. insensitive; indifferent; unsympathetic: They have a callous attitude toward the sufferings of others.

    Or you do not have children of your own.



    A thought to carry with you---
    When you love and care for someone you are concerned for their care and well being no matter their age.
  5. #5
    jrsec is offline Junior Member
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    More assumptions

    Quote Originally Posted by barry1817 View Post
    Was the treatment wrong?

    There can be problems with treatment of a minor without consent, especially since you met your son at the hospital, but really if he was treated in a timely manner I dont' understand why you would want to even think about pursuing such a claim against health care providers that were looking to do their best for your son.

    [email]Barry1817@aol.com[/email]
    Barry- People should ask more questions and assume less. I am not considering litigation. I was not sure what care he received since I did not see it and it was not properly explained to me. Finally, with how my family was treated should I assume that they were looking to do the best for my son? I grew up in a family with 3 doctors, and 2 nurses, and they all agree that being rude, insensitive and uncommunicative in an emergency setting is at best unethical and at worst borderline negligent. What I was trying to get at in this forum was if this can be done. If I am present at the facility can they legally deny me access to view his treatment and then not tell me what they had done. Bottom line is, I am responsible for my son in every aspect of his life, so it is a surprise to find out that in the event of an injury that a business clinic can take custody of my son and not allow me to see him or view his care.
  6. #6
    dedlock Guest

    Emancipation

    Unless your son was emancipated, he is a minor until he reaches the age of 18 per Michigan state law. Whether treated in a hospital, clinic or doctor's office the parents are responsible for the child. The clinic is required by law to have your consent for treatment and acceptance of payment.

    You not only can sue Concentra clinic for treating your child without you written consent, you have grounds to not accept resposibility for their bill.
  7. #7
    Zigner is offline Senior Member
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    The bottom line is this: Did the clinic cause any damage? You say you took your son to a "proper" emergency room after his treatment at the clinic. What did they say?
  8. #8
    You Are Guilty is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by dedlock View Post
    Unless your son was emancipated, he is a minor until he reaches the age of 18 per Michigan state law. Whether treated in a hospital, clinic or doctor's office the parents are responsible for the child. The clinic is required by law to have your consent for treatment and acceptance of payment.

    You not only can sue Concentra clinic for treating your child without you written consent, you have grounds to not accept resposibility for their bill.
    Before you get yet another poster in trouble, please cite one source: statute, case, treaty, whatever, that supports your conclusion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquility
    Once you get to crazy land, it is only a guess on how to get out.
  9. #9
    dedlock Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by You Are Guilty View Post
    Before you get yet another poster in trouble, please cite one source: statute, case, treaty, whatever, that supports your conclusion.
    You may send my a PM with your response to:

    Please provide a case, situation or example of where I got "yet another poster in trouble".

    Otherwise, you appear to be highjacking the thread for purpose of having someone do your legal research for free.

    Thank you.
    Last edited by dedlock; 08-18-2007 at 12:38 PM.
  10. #10
    fairisfair is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by dedlock View Post
    You may send my a PM with your response to:

    Please provide a case, situation or example of where I got "yet another poster in trouble".

    Otherwise, you appear to be highjacking the thread for purpose of having someone do your legal research for free.

    Thank you.
    YOU TRULY ARE AN IDIOT.

    You are Guilty IS an attorney, he hardly needs your sorry butt to do any legal research for him.

    YOU on the other hand, are. . . . what?? oh yes, see above.

    However, for your OWN research purposes, try looking up the terms "informed consent", which CAN be given by a minor, obligation to treat, which must be done in the case of an emergency, oh, you know, like chopping one's finger off or something, and obligation to pay, which lies with the parent, custodian, or legal guardian of a minor, regardless of whether they gave permission to treat or not.
    Last edited by fairisfair; 08-18-2007 at 07:02 PM.
  11. #11
    ecmst12 is offline Senior Member
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    He who asserts must prove. You were asked to provide some evidence in support of your assertion and you responded with snitty comments and insults. Which makes me think that you are talking out of your rear end and HAVE no proof. Hopefully OP will reach the same conclusion.
  12. #12
    fairisfair is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecmst12 View Post
    He who asserts must prove. You were asked to provide some evidence in support of your assertion and you responded with snitty comments and insults. Which makes me think that you are talking out of your rear end and HAVE no proof. Hopefully OP will reach the same conclusion.
    to whom is this directed?
  13. #13
    dedlock Guest
    Hopefully, jrsec already has figured out you are all taking out of your, how did you describe it ecmst? "out your rear end"?!!

    I think the answer I gave speaks for itself. And if any of you actually KNEW anything about contract law, and informed consent, emancipation of a minor as well as "duty", you would have answered this poor person with the correct answer.

    You cannot treat a minor without parental consent. There are exceptions but not relevant.

    This was not an "emergency room" mrnamecaller- it was a clinic. And the parents were standing right there. Therefore, they had no reason NOT to get the consent of the parents.

    Here you go... homework assignment kids,

    1. Look up def "emancipation". Find age for emancipation, MI
    2. Study AMA Patient Right to Informed Consent (it's not just a piece of paper- it really means something)
    3. Werth v. Taylor, 190 Mich App 141 (1991).
    4. THE COMPETENCE OF ADOLESCENTS TO CONSENT TO TREATMENT, Issues in Law & Medicine, Adolescent Psychiatry, 2004 by Forehand, Lyle Jr, Ciccone, J Richard


    btw- what are you doing answering questions on a legal forum ecmst12? Don't bother to answer, let me guess. You're trying to learn all you can for your job.

    Since when did you decide who has to prove what?? You really are special aren't you?
    Last edited by dedlock; 08-18-2007 at 03:03 PM.
  14. #14
    fairisfair is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by dedlock View Post
    Hopefully, jrsec already has figured out you are all taking out of your, how did you describe it ecmst? "out your rear end"?!!

    I think the answer I gave speaks for itself. And if any of you actually KNEW anything about contract law, and informed consent, emancipation of a minor as well as "duty", you would have answered this poor person with the correct answer.

    You cannot treat a minor without parental consent. There are exceptions but not relevant.

    This was not an "emergency room" mrnamecaller- it was a clinic. And the parents were standing right there. Therefore, they had no reason NOT to get the consent of the parents.

    Here you go... homework assignment kids,

    1. Look up def "emancipation". Find age for emancipation, MI
    2. Study AMA Patient Right to Informed Consent (it's not just a piece of paper- it really means something)
    3. Werth v. Taylor, 190 Mich App 141 (1991).
    4. THE COMPETENCE OF ADOLESCENTS TO CONSENT TO TREATMENT, Issues in Law & Medicine, Adolescent Psychiatry, 2004 by Forehand, Lyle Jr, Ciccone, J Richard


    btw- what are you doing answering questions on a legal forum ecmst12? Don't bother to answer, let me guess. You're trying to learn all you can for your job.

    Since when did you decide who has to prove what?? You really are special aren't you?
    again, you have no idea what you are talking about. A minor CAN give informed consent. Specifically a minor at 17 years of age, of normal intelligence, who is obviously awake and aware of his surroundings and condition.

    It is not required that a minor be emancipated to give informed consent.

    Regardless of the idea that there was no reason NOT to obtain parental consent, nor was there legal requirement TO obtain it.

    your case cite does NOT apply.

    and your head is as always, located directly and far south from your neck.
  15. #15
    fairisfair is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by dedlock View Post
    My dear, you are a boring rectal cavity.
    I am HARDLY your "dear", however, you are, admittedly, an expert on rectal cavities.

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