is there anything i can do?

[speedcam]

wisconsin....... back on May 25th i had mri's done on my neck and complete back. at that time i was informed that i had a herniated disc in my neck but that the rest of my back was perfectly fine. i have had PT on my neck and seems to be doing fine still a little pain but i can live with it. Last Friday(7th) i went in for some blood work results and my doc asked how my back and neck were doing. i told her that my back still hurt but that the PT on my neck worked pretty good i thought. she asked why i didn't have any done on my Lumbar. now with one of the dumb-founded looks on my face, i told her because according to your nurse there was nothing wrong with it. she had told me and my wife that my back was fine but that i had the herniated disc in my neck. my doc then continued to show my that she had everything noted in her laptop showing that i ALSO had a herniated disc at the L4-L5 disc. it's been 5 months since i had the initial MRI's and now i am finding out that i have been working with a messed up back that i was not told about. if i only did light work i wouldn't be as upset but i move 500+lbs drume around all day long along with 300 lb compressors for my line of business. all of which i normally move by had or dolly because there is no equipment on the jobs to move them.can this be constrewed as malpractice? and info would be appreciated as for the past 5 days i haven't been able to stand striaght or even sit for more than five minutes without my back either locking up or giving out. and in the mornings i can't even sit up. i litterally have to roll out of bed in the morning just to get up for work which even in that case takes me at least 3 hours before i can move around even close to normal.

thanks
speed

 

[rmet4nzkx]

wisconsin....... back on May 25th i had mri's done on my neck and complete back. at that time i was informed that i had a herniated disc in my neck but that the rest of my back was perfectly fine. i have had PT on my neck and seems to be doing fine still a little pain but i can live with it. Last Friday(7th) i went in for some blood work results and my doc asked how my back and neck were doing. i told her that my back still hurt but that the PT on my neck worked pretty good i thought. she asked why i didn't have any done on my Lumbar. now with one of the dumb-founded looks on my face, i told her because according to your nurse there was nothing wrong with it. she had told me and my wife that my back was fine but that i had the herniated disc in my neck. my doc then continued to show my that she had everything noted in her laptop showing that i ALSO had a herniated disc at the L4-L5 disc. it's been 5 months since i had the initial MRI's and now i am finding out that i have been working with a messed up back that i was not told about. if i only did light work i wouldn't be as upset but i move 500+lbs drume around all day long along with 300 lb compressors for my line of business. all of which i normally move by had or dolly because there is no equipment on the jobs to move them.can this be constrewed as malpractice? and info would be appreciated as for the past 5 days i haven't been able to stand striaght or even sit for more than five minutes without my back either locking up or giving out. and in the mornings i can't even sit up. i litterally have to roll out of bed in the morning just to get up for work which even in that case takes me at least 3 hours before i can move around even close to normal.

thanks
speed

We can not advise with more facts.

Is this a worker's comp case? Do you wear support belt while working?
Please describe the injury causing you to seek medical attention? When?
You were prescribed PT when? What was the opinion of the PT, did they refer you back to the doctor re your continued back pain? Were there any restrictions?
Why did you not consult the doctor re your back pain? Why is it that you are suddenly so affected only after you were informed there were findings?

Please post the exact wording of the radiologist's report of the MRI?
Do you have a copy of the orders for PT?

 

[speedcam]

We can not advise with more facts.

Is this a worker's comp case? Do you wear support belt while working?
Please describe the injury causing you to seek medical attention? When?
You were prescribed PT when? What was the opinion of the PT, did they refer you back to the doctor re your continued back pain? Were there any restrictions?
Why did you not consult the doctor re your back pain? Why is it that you are suddenly so affected only after you were informed there were findings?

Please post the exact wording of the radiologist's report of the MRI?
Do you have a copy of the orders for PT?

ok no as of now it is not a worker's comp case( although that is being disputed also) no i do not usually were a belt because there is normally someone else there to help. In January of this year('05) i slipped on the ice in the parking lot at work( this is the only thing i can think of that may have contributed to the pain) and i folded my ankle and knee to different ways causing my head to crash down on top of my knee when i hit the ground. at that time i went to the ER and had it looked at(X-rays and all the normal) found no breaks i had mentioned that my neck and back hurt but that it wasn't severe. the following week i was to go to my reg. doc for a follow up. at that time i mentioned all the pain again. i was scheduled for 3 MRI's. i had these done on the 25th of may(so here you can see a lapse in time frame) i am not sure if the MRI was full or not but in the mean time i was given pain killers and muscle spams pills ( vicodin and skelaxtin). after the Mri's i was on restriction on lifting which i followed. the doctor's nurse called my wife with the results of the MRI's she inturn called me with them. i thought it seemed wierd that my lower back hurt so bad so i called the doctors office and talked to the nurse. she had told me the same this( "unfortunately you do have a herniated disc in your neck but your middle back and the lumber came back normal"). i went in a day later because i was unable to get out of bed with out my wife helping me to sit up. at that time i was scheduled for PT. i had electric pulse therapy and was put in traction to stretch out my neck. i did this 2 times a week for the next month. around the middle of June the neck felt great but the back still bothered me. i was told be the therapist that nothing was mentioned about it so there is nothing she could do but would talk to the doc. she went upstairs and came back about 20 minutes later and told me the nurse said there was nothing showing on my MRI's for my lower back. so thats were it ended. so you see i did consult me doc for the pain and seemed to me like it was blown off until this past week. so no i did not forget about the pain but instead delt with it, it has been there and still is but no one ever gave meany kind of thought that something was wrong( at least like this wrong) i would not expect this form a doc i have seen for the past 20 yrs. and the reason i went and mentioned it again last Friday is because it has been hurting more and making it harder to get up after laying down or sitting for a little while. that is when i was informed that there was a problem . i hope this answers everything you asked if not i will try to in another post. as far as "the exact wording of the radiologist's report of the MRI" i don't know as i was never given anything in writting.

thanks
speed

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Please call the doctor's office and ask for a copy of the radiologist's report on your MRI and post that here, some normal findings, normal variations may exist yet be still be within the standard of care if they are not treated. Also get a copy of the doctors orders for the pt. File a workers' comp claim.

 

[panzertanker]

my doc then continued to show my that she had everything noted in her laptop showing that i ALSO had a herniated disc at the L4-L5 disc. it's been 5 months since i had the initial MRI's and now i am finding out that i have been working with a messed up back that i was not told about.

As rmet4nzkx asked, post the EXACT wording of the MRI impression of your lumbar.
A herniated disc can be: small, circumfirential, protruded, broad, etc.

Without the exact wording, no one can offer an opinion.
I have multiple pt's that are walking, working, and running around with multiple level lumbar herniations. The findings are in if they are impinging on the canal, broad, protruded, etc.
This makes the difference if they are more serious and require intervention or not.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

As rmet4nzkx asked, post the EXACT wording of the MRI impression of your lumbar.
A herniated disc can be: small, circumfirential, protruded, broad, etc.

Without the exact wording, no one can offer an opinion.
I have multiple pt's that are walking, working, and running around with multiple level lumbar herniations. The findings are in if they are impinging on the canal, broad, protruded, etc.
This makes the difference if they are more serious and require intervention or not.

I will be curious as to the report. I find it interesting that OP managed to work, without wearing his back support belt, moving around heavy objects 9 months since his injury with only discomfort reported and suddenly is so disabled once he learns of the hernations in the back.

 

[panzertanker]

suddenly is so disabled once he learns of the hernations in the back.

I thought the exact same thing. "All of a sudden when I get up I can hardly walk...etc."
"can i sue?"

I hate OP questions that always seem to be looking for a fast buck...

 

[speedcam]

I thought the exact same thing. "All of a sudden when I get up I can hardly walk...etc."
"can i sue?"

I hate OP questions that always seem to be looking for a fast buck...

I will be curious as to the report. I find it interesting that OP managed to work, without wearing his back support belt, moving around heavy objects 9 months since his injury with only discomfort reported and suddenly is so disabled once he learns of the hernations in the back.

OK FIRST LET ME STATE THIS...

1) IT HAS NOT BEEN NINE MOTHS,it has been 5 since my MRI's and roughly 4 months since my PT on my neck.
2) i was never instructed to wear a belt,and yes they were aware of my line of work( HVAC INDUSTRY).
3) it has NOT been "sudden", it has continued to hurt since i first mentioned it but everytime i did bring it up to my doc i got" there was nothing on your MRI to alert us to anything".
4) i brought it up BEFORE i found out about my lower back problem, it wasn't until after i mentioned it was still hurting she looked through her records and told me it was herniated.

5) i do not believe my wording was as quoted(if so then i mis-spoke.)
i did not mean it to sound like "All of a sudden when I get up I can hardly walk". i merely was trying to get a point across as to how bad it has been for the past few weeks.( although, the example was very clear and true, today it is not as bad as it was, but it still has me moving slow).

6) where did i say anything about sueing? all i asked was if it could be constrewed as malpractice. i never said i wasn't going to pay my existing bill nor am i going to not pay it. i just felt that if this was known i could have had both issues addressed at the same time and not 5-6 months down the line.

so NO I AM NOT "AN OP THAT IS ALWAYS LOOKING FOR A FAST BUCK"!! Those are other jerks that i know and i can't stand that crap. i still like the old honorable way of solving things, they are called fists.none of this BS like now.everyone is sue happy and it makes me sick.

now with all that said i am going to see if i can get all the reports and let you know what they say.

 

[ellencee]

wisconsin....... back on May 25th i had mri's done on my neck and complete back. at that time i was informed that i had a herniated disc in my neck but that the rest of my back was perfectly fine. i have had PT on my neck and seems to be doing fine still a little pain but i can live with it. Last Friday(7th) i went in for some blood work results and my doc asked how my back and neck were doing. i told her that my back still hurt but that the PT on my neck worked pretty good i thought. she asked why i didn't have any done on my Lumbar. now with one of the dumb-founded looks on my face, i told her because according to your nurse there was nothing wrong with it. she had told me and my wife that my back was fine but that i had the herniated disc in my neck. my doc then continued to show my that she had everything noted in her laptop showing that i ALSO had a herniated disc at the L4-L5 disc. it's been 5 months since i had the initial MRI's and now i am finding out that i have been working with a messed up back that i was not told about. if i only did light work i wouldn't be as upset but i move 500+lbs drume around all day long along with 300 lb compressors for my line of business. all of which i normally move by had or dolly because there is no equipment on the jobs to move them.can this be constrewed as malpractice? and info would be appreciated as for the past 5 days i haven't been able to stand striaght or even sit for more than five minutes without my back either locking up or giving out. and in the mornings i can't even sit up. i litterally have to roll out of bed in the morning just to get up for work which even in that case takes me at least 3 hours before i can move around even close to normal.

thanks
speed

"can this be constrewed as malpractice?" Malpractice can be construed to mean failure to accurately relay test results to the patient. Malpractice can be construed to mean failure to follow-up on a patient's continuing complaint of low back pain. Each of those examples is an example of professional negligence.

Do these examples equal a viable claim of medical malpractice? No. In order for there to be a viable claim of malpractice, there must be significant damages as a direct result of the act(s) of professional negligence.

You need more than the original MRI results. You need an MRI taken now and compared to the initial MRI. If treatment had been ordered initially, such as adding PT for your lower back, and expected recovery for your lower herniation was the same as for your cervical disc herniation but now due a lack of receiving proper treatment you require surgery then you have significant damages (or the possibility of significant damages). Lost wages due to the recovery time for preventable surgery will add to your claim of significant damages.

If your MRI shows no real change and physical therapy is the treatment of choice, you will most likely have no significant damage (loss) on which to base a claim of medical malpractice.

Your claim meets the required elements of duty (nurse and MD) and breach of duty (nurse and MD). Your claim also meets the required element of an act, or acts, of professional negligence. Your claim must meet the required element of significant damages that are the direct result of the act(s) of professional negligence.

Medmal claims are expensive; therefore the monetary award for damages must be sufficient to pay for the litigation process and provide the plaintiff (you) with an acceptable award for damages.

If you require treatment above and beyond what would have been required initially, you may find an attorney willing to take such a small claim of damages. If you consult with medmal attorneys, my advice is to seek consultation with small firms or with privately practicing attorneys (no partners).

At this point in your 'claim', my advice is for you to consult with several medmal attorneys in your area (the area of the MD's practice), get an MRI and/or CT scans with and without contrast, and find out if your lumbar herniation was damaged by your not initially receiving proper treatment.

Best wishes,
EC

 

[rmet4nzkx]

YOu responded to my question

In January of this year('05) i slipped on the ice in the parking lot at work( this is the only thing i can think of that may have contributed to the pain) and i folded my ankle and knee to different ways causing my head to crash down on top of my knee when i hit the ground. at that time i went to the ER and had it looked at(X-rays and all the normal) found no breaks i had mentioned that my neck and back hurt but that it wasn't severe. the following week i was to go to my reg. doc for a follow up. at that time i mentioned all the pain again. i was scheduled for 3 MRI's. i had these done on the 25th of may(so here you can see a lapse in time frame) i am not sure if the MRI was full or not but in the mean time i was given pain killers and muscle spams pills ( vicodin and skelaxtin). after the Mri's i was on restriction on lifting which i followed. the doctor's nurse called my wife with the results of the MRI's she inturn called me with them.

That is is date of injury and my reference to 9 months, NOT the dates of the MRI and orders for PT. If this is a workers comp claim, you need to follow that route as opposed to seeking a med mal claim.

 

[panzertanker]

2) i was never instructed to wear a belt,and yes they were aware of my line of work( HVAC INDUSTRY).

OK, but common sense dictates that if your lower back hurts...............

3) it has NOT been "sudden", it has continued to hurt since i first mentioned it but everytime i did bring it up to my doc i got" there was nothing on your MRI to alert us to anything".

OK, but your original statement is that the NURSE told you your lower back MRI was fine. You never stated that you have brought this up to the Dr. again.

4) i brought it up BEFORE i found out about my lower back problem, it wasn't until after i mentioned it was still hurting she looked through her records and told me it was herniated.

As ellencee states, you need comparisons, and damages, to make this a viable claim. The origianl MRI will make a huge difference in whether or not you had a significant back problem.

5) i do not believe my wording was as quoted(if so then i mis-spoke.)
i did not mean it to sound like "All of a sudden when I get up I can hardly walk". i merely was trying to get a point across as to how bad it has been for the past few weeks.( although, the example was very clear and true, today it is not as bad as it was, but it still has me moving slow).

That was not a direct quote, just a feeling of how this thread was going. If I am incorrect in your intentions, I apologize.

6) where did i say anything about sueing? all i asked was if it could be constrewed as malpractice. i never said i wasn't going to pay my existing bill nor am i going to not pay it. i just felt that if this was known i could have had both issues addressed at the same time and not 5-6 months down the line.

What other reason would you be looking to see if you had a valid malpractice claim; fun and giggles???

so NO I AM NOT "AN OP THAT IS ALWAYS LOOKING FOR A FAST BUCK"!! Those are other jerks that i know and i can't stand that crap. i still like the old honorable way of solving things, they are called fists.none of this BS like now.everyone is sue happy and it makes me sick.

now with all that said i am going to see if i can get all the reports and let you know what they say.

Thanks, look forward to the report.

 

[speedcam]

mri findings.

Len, not a problem and as i stated, if i worded wrong it was not my intent.
now on with the findings... (oh and i was just thinking maybe they should pay for the rest of this to fix it and not sue).


(all reports specifiy " study compared to plain films dated 04-20-05" these MRI's are WO contrast)

" findings: Sagittal and axial images were preformed utilizing various pulse sequesces. the cervical vertebral marrow signal intensity is within normal limits. Cervical disk heights are within normal limits. There is moderate,left,posterolateral, disk herniation at C6-7. this is thought to cause mild mass effect upon left anterolateral aspect for the cervical cord at this level. no eveidence of spinal stenosis. no eveidenca for foraminal stenosis.

IMPRESSION: moderate, left posterolateral, disk herniattion at C6-7."


" MRI L-Spine WO contrast -- plain films dated 8/29/01

Findings: there is mild disk interspace noted at L4-5. there is also noted to be mild posterior disk herniation at L$-5,which appears to be slightly lateralized to the right of midline. Increased signal intensity in the posterior aspect of this may reflect an anular tear. there is np other evidence for disk herniation. the conus medullaris is unremarkable. there is no evidence for lumbar spinal stenosis. the facet joints are unremarkable.

IMPRESSION:

Mild posterior disk herniation at L4-5, which appears to be slightly lateralized to the right of midline."

this is is on the copy of the order from the dr. for the MRI's.

" MRI CERVICAL THORASIC & LUMBER SPINE-- 4/27/05

1) RADINDLAR(? NOT SURE BEST I CAN MAKE OUT) PAIN
2) SPINAL STENOSIS LUMBAR "

THIS IS OFF THE ORDER FOR PT:

"4/20/05
pt. TO EVALUATE & TREAT NECK & L. SHOULDER PAIN. "

THIS IS ALL THAT I HAVE and this was all just faxed to me from the doctor's office. hope this helps. Thanks again

speed

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Len, not a problem and as i stated, if i worded wrong it was not my intent.
now on with the findings... (oh and i was just thinking maybe they should pay for the rest of this to fix it and not sue).


(all reports specifiy " study compared to plain films dated 04-20-05" these MRI's are WO contrast)

" findings: Sagittal and axial images were preformed utilizing various pulse sequesces. the cervical vertebral marrow signal intensity is within normal limits. Cervical disk heights are within normal limits. There is moderate,left,posterolateral, disk herniation at C6-7. this is thought to cause mild mass effect upon left anterolateral aspect for the cervical cord at this level. no eveidence of spinal stenosis. no eveidenca for foraminal stenosis.

IMPRESSION: moderate, left posterolateral, disk herniattion at C6-7."


" MRI L-Spine WO contrast -- plain films dated 8/29/01

Findings: there is mild disk interspace noted at L4-5. there is also noted to be mild posterior disk herniation at L$-5,which appears to be slightly lateralized to the right of midline. Increased signal intensity in the posterior aspect of this may reflect an anular tear. there is np other evidence for disk herniation. the conus medullaris is unremarkable. there is no evidence for lumbar spinal stenosis. the facet joints are unremarkable.

IMPRESSION:

Mild posterior disk herniation at L4-5, which appears to be slightly lateralized to the right of midline."

this is is on the copy of the order from the dr. for the MRI's.

" MRI CERVICAL THORASIC & LUMBER SPINE-- 4/27/05

1) RADINDLAR(? NOT SURE BEST I CAN MAKE OUT) PAIN
2) SPINAL STENOSIS LUMBAR "

THIS IS OFF THE ORDER FOR PT:

"4/20/05
pt. TO EVALUATE & TREAT NECK & L. SHOULDER PAIN. "

THIS IS ALL THAT I HAVE and this was all just faxed to me from the doctor's office. hope this helps. Thanks again

speed

I'm sure Panzertanker will answer in depth.

Are all your dates correct, please verify and Bold any changes.

It would appear that PT was ordered based on neck and shoulder pain as major complaint and before C/T/L SPINE MRI were ordered. Did you have Xrays in 2001?

On the surface, you don't have the typical presentation of someone with herniated L4-5, however you may still have a valid worker's comp case.

Is it possible your doctor was ordering tests to rule out other possible causes of your continued pain such as, Rheumatoid arthritis or Inflammatory arthritides, such as ankylosing spondylitis, which cause generalized pain and stiffness that are worse in the morning and relieved somewhat throughout the day. That could explain some of your symptoms in addition to hernation, have you had a HLA-B27 test?

 

[speedcam]

I'm sure Panzertanker will answer in depth.

Are all your dates correct, please verify and Bold any changes.

It would appear that PT was ordered based on neck and shoulder pain as major complaint and before C/T/L SPINE MRI were ordered. Did you have Xrays in 2001?

On the surface, you don't have the typical presentation of someone with herniated L4-5, however you may still have a valid worker's comp case.

Is it possible your doctor was ordering tests to rule out other possible causes of your continued pain such as, Rheumatoid arthritis or Inflammatory arthritides, such as ankylosing spondylitis, which cause generalized pain and stiffness that are worse in the morning and relieved somewhat throughout the day. That could explain some of your symptoms in addition to hernation, have you had a HLA-B27 test?

THE DATES AS FAR AS I CAN THINK OF ARE CORRECT. in 2001 i had x-rays done on my back because i turned a corner in my employers building and collapsed. legs went to rubber and i could not get up for about 10 minutes. even when my brother tried to help me up i jusr dropped right back down.

on 4-20 -05 i had x-rays done the day i went in because of the pain after getting those back is when the dr requested i have the MRI's done. i am not sure if the date they have on the MRI scan package that have all my scans in is the date of recieving the pictures or not. i do know that the MRI's were done a few weeks later because of the scheduling.

what are some of the typical systomes of the heriation?
i am just curious because maybe i can let you know which i have. i can tell you as of now that it feels like needles sticking in my lower back constantly. it is always sore and for lack of a better description, always seems to be "tried" out. it feels tight all the time, the pain goes down to my legs( hamstrings) sometimes the buttocks and thighs go numb. if i have been standing or sitting for a little while then go to lay down i can feel it "pop" right in the small of my back. if i lean against the countertops in the Kitchen in the corner and lift up with my arms all the pain goes away until i lower myself back down to the floor. then my legs feel like rubber and takes me a few moments before i can place full weight on them.
i do not know if the pain is relieved through out the day or if it just seems as though the muscles have "loosened" up from the morning. it if possible they were checking for other things yes. but i do not know for sure. they did not mention anything they would have been looking for.

how can it still be possible for this to be workers' comp. when it is months down the road from what i believe to be the onset even though at that time it didn't hurt like now?

as far as the test (HLA-B27 test) i do not know what this is? i have not seen it or know off hand if the dr. has tested for it. as far as i can say now the answer would be NO.

thanks again

speed

 

[rmet4nzkx]

It is better to hear in your own words as you have described your symptoms rather than to lead you on and suggest symptoms. Call your doctor's office and ask about having a HLB-B27 test.

You were injured on the job in Jan 2005 and something happened in 2001, it is worth a try as you have been working all this time which may have exacrbated your condition/combination, what ever it is. Many employers will not encourage you to pursue a worker's comp claim for obvious reasons and they may be contested. It would appear that for what ever reason, your employer is not providing appropriate protective equipment, such as support belts which may have injured or exacerbated your condition.

Since your 2001 Xray showed the hernated disc in 2001 and you have little trouble/change between then and your injury in Jan 2005, that may be why the nurse advised as she did and since the doctor didn't order PT evaluation of lower back.

As I said Panzertanker will provide more advice.