Admin sep questions...USMC

[str8trippin]

Alright, couple of questions for anyone that could possibly help me out, as I am losing my mind and nobody here at regiment seems to have a clue as to what's going on.

Details: I popped positive on a urinalysis test roughly 3 months before my eas... I was tried at special courts martial AFTER my EAS... The results of the SCM were typical, 25 days confinement, reduction from E4 to E1, and 2/3's forfeitures for a month... WELL I am now out of the brigg and awaiting the supposed "adsep" ALSO; before this one incident, I have never had a single other incident as far as NJP or Courts Martial goes, and had pro/con in the 4.5/4.5 area my whole enlistment, 2 combat deployments, and 11 various ribbons/medals.

Now my questions are as follows... Since I finished my full 4 year commitment before being charged, should I get a general, or honorable discharge? As it is right now, I am on "legal hold" I have no "new EAS" and from what I've heard from the adjutant, is that since I no longer am serving my contract time, that they cannot technically "adsep" me. Is that true? Also, no word on any type of characterization of service on the alledged "adsep" has been mentioned...

Any helpful input would be duly appreciated. Thanks all in advance.

[fozzy2]

Hmmmm. According to the "Marine Corps Separation and Retirement Manual" 6302(3)(b)(3)(a) " Holding beyond release date. A marine may not be held on active duty involuntarily beyond his or her release date for administrative discharge. See paragraph 1008."

However, in paragraph 1008 (1)(b)(3) it says "Personnel retained beyond EAS due to serving a sentence or awaiting appellate review of a court martial may be discharged under the provisions of, and upon compliance with the Manual of the Judge Advocate General of the Navy (JAGMAN) and/or SECNAVINSTs in the 5815 series."

Without looking up those later regs, I wonder if your court martial conviction is undergoing some kind of review and/or appeal.

[str8trippin]

Peligroso: Not true, during IRR you cannot be recalled during your 1st or final years of obligated time.

Fozzy: thanks for the actual useful information, I wasn't held past EAS "due" to serving the sentence, but the sentence wasn't even imposed until after my EAS... As far as the appellate review, I believe that is for BCD's. And I'm somewhat sure that that is not the case with my situation (also, its not only me from this unit in these exact shoes, there are roughly 5 of us that are all in the precise same situation)

[str8trippin]

Peligroso: Whether I am or am not, it really doesn't matter, what matters is that you are wrong, I will not be held here under the guise of "Inactive Reserve Time" and by thinking that, you sir, are a fool.

If you have nothing useful and productive to say in this matter, I ask you to please keep it to yourself and just stay off my thread.

To the people that are not ignorant fools, thanks to you.

[str8trippin]

Alright, its early, and I don't feel like completely dissecting what you said, and ripping your small fragile mind apart, but there are a few things I wanted to hit on real quick...

For one, you clearly have never done anything meaningful in your "career" in the military, my guess is that you are an admin fobbet? sound about right? I guarentee that my military record, even WITH a SCM for drug use, is more impressive than yours. (but please don't try and reply with a list of your accomplishments, because I'm sure that will be about as accurate as this "advice" that you are giving on this thread) Also there is nothing "convicted felon" about me, so please get your facts straight before you go off on your whimsical tiraides. Last time that I checked a Summary Courts-Martial was considered, at worst, a Misdemeanor, not a Felony.

And you're last piece where you proclaim that I'm attacking you because you say things that are both TRUE and not what I want to hear, well, that'd be about right if any of what you says makes the slightest grain of sense to anybody but you, with your overblown self righteous attitude. But again, you are completely correct for taking liberties with what actually happened, and creating your own skewed version in your mind.

So in closing, you clearly know about half as much about anything as you think you do, and are so completely close minded that you would fit in great if you decided to stay in the military, which is overpopulated with the pomous arrogant pricks like yourself, that think you are holier than God and above scrutinization.

[str8trippin]

Well, in hindsight, my only mistake was joining the United States Military and fighting for this country, who will not so much as bat an eye to an injured combat vet. I made ONE mistake in four years, ONE. I didn't murder anybody, I didn't get behind the wheel of a vehicle drunk (like so many do, and simply get an NJP) wrecklessly endangering not only my own life, but every single innocent family on the road. I didn't STEAL money from the government, or abuse a position of authority, I didn't torture "terrorists..." No, I made a poor judgment call in the depths of Depression and Post Traumatic Stress, and turned to drugs... Perhaps if I, and everyone like myself were afforded skilled care and treatment by real Doctors, Neurologists, and Psychiatrists, maybe, just maybe, NOBODY would have to turn to illicit substances in a shameful attempt at escaping their own horrors. Lord knows the Military doesn't care enough about us to give us adequate treatment for PTSD, TBI, or PCS. That's too much of a liability to admit that, well, War does cause harmful side-effects to individuals, whether visible, or not.

But it's ok, live and learn. I gave up 4 of the best years of my life, and now have to live with numerous disabilities incurred while serving in this nations armed forces. With none of the few meager "benefits" that we would normally rate.

Maybe its high time they re-evaluated this nonsensical "zero tolerance" rule, and tried helping out Marines, Soldiers, Sailors, and Airmen that have given all they have to give to this country, who come back to a world, alienated from what they know, having been through hell and back, seeing the entire gamut of mankind, from the horrors of combat, to the kindness and generosity of people dealing with awful situations, out of sheer humanly love and compassion for one another. Help out the young men and women who come back to their homeland a changed person, who can't deal or cope with the things they've done or seen, or perhaps they've suffered an injury, so substantial, that their entire personality has shifted? Is that a possibility? Of course not says Uncle Sam... And they're absolutely correct, a Traumatic Brain Injury or Post Concussion Syndrome DO NOT alter ones moods, behaviors, judgement, perception, and reasoning skills... Just ask the thousands of licensed Doctors out there who agree with that statement...

And just for the record, since you are so fond of mentioning it, when I originally posted on this forum, my "story" of what happened was simply that, I wanted to get information, and see what was going on, I was scared of what was going to happen and was considering all options, as I knew the higher ups wouldn't care whatsoever as to why I actually used drugs... In fact, at Court-Martial, I had no defence, I admitted whole-heartedly to the charges, I knew what I did was wrong, when looking back on it, but at that time, at that moment, it seemed like the right thing to do, to escape the numb feeling that is all too common.

And if none of that helps to at least open up your clearly closed mind on the subject, just go ask anyone that is in the same shoes as me, in person, to explain why they did what they did... Ask my buddy, who jumps to the ground, and lands prone, crawling along the pavement, or grass, whenever a loud "bang" or "crash" happens. Ask any of us, who after finally falling asleep at 4A.M. wake up in sheer terror, and are drenched in sweat from a horrible night mare, and are unable to get back to sleep. Or anyone who's eyes get even just a little teary each and everytime they hear a bag-pipe play, because they remember the ceremonies for their friends that they will never see again, and seeing that friends family members and feeling a sense of guilt that you made it back, and your buddy did not. Or everytime you drive down the road, any road, for any length of time, scanning the sides of I-95 for suspicious debris, that could house a 155MM artillery shell, waiting to obliderate you and your family...

So ask yourself those questions, then think to yourself, in all of your "thick skinned" ways, is this what I, or what anybody in this situation really DESERVE???

[SHDR85]

I totally agree with you "st8trippin"

I have lived 8 years with a man with PTSD, and it has altered all of our lives. A man who hasn't seen the forefronts of combat since 1991, but still wakes up from the night terrors. The person who has woken up in the closet, clenching a 9mm tightly in his hands, ready to destroy anyone that might stumble apon him. A man who wakes the family up in the middle of the night, tearing down the blinds, because he thinks there are terrorists outside.

No one can judge the way a person deals with PTSD unless they themselves have lived with it and been through the traumatic events that occur in the middle east!

Congrats on your service. I hope everything turns out well for you and you find the medical services that you need!!!!

[Tritium]

I would try talking to someone in Veterans Affairs. Depending on what state you live in, there should be someone in that office that can assist you. It seems obvious that the intent is to punish someone who has followed every order,and served respectfully. It doesn't matter it is anti-depressants, or hardcore crack, using implies other issues, and knowing the military had been dosing most people in Iraq or Afghanistan, I wouldn't be surprised if combat fatigue lead to the drug ordeal. This is likely a case of ... "Oh, we can reduce budget spending this way.

Truth of the matter is... You served your country, regardless of what good or bad may have happened during tat time, the failure wasn't yours (in my opinion) and the imposition and lack of respect by the government is just another confirmation that this isn't a war of pride, horor, or even a fight for freedom... It's a fight for control.

If you are sworn to uphold the Constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic, how do you kinow to fight those who continue violatin the principles?

Certain individuals should be put up for action on Worldwide EBAY.

[Peligroso27]

That is just poor advice. The intent was to punish someone who violated the UCMJ. You forgot the last part of the oath of enlistment, "I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." No matter how traumatized this individual may have been that did not justify using illegal drugs. His rationalization and rant about his return is nothing more than a disgruntled employees parting shot. This type of thing is not happening in increased numbers and people like him bring dishonor onto their service by feeling entitled to do what they want when they return. He is not welcome at Veteran's Affairs, he has no veteran's benefits.

[Tritium]

Originally Posted by Peligroso27

That is just poor advice. The intent was to punish someone who violated the UCMJ. You forgot the last part of the oath of enlistment, "I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." No matter how traumatized this individual may have been that did not justify using illegal drugs. His rationalization and rant about his return is nothing more than a disgruntled employees parting shot. This type of thing is not happening in increased numbers and people like him bring dishonor onto their service by feeling entitled to do what they want when they return. He is not welcome at Veteran's Affairs, he has no veteran's benefits.

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).

As you can read, 1st and foremost, The Constitution, which it seems all military personal has violated, as well as officers at every level. This is the first, and must be the first object of protection. Without the Constitution, there is no President, nor is there a valid declaration of war.

But for the section you mentioned... It refers not to the regulations, but to the order of the commanding officer over him. (According to regulations and uniform code of military justice) So help us all.

Semper Fi.

[Peligroso27]

Originally Posted by Tritium

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).

As you can read, 1st and foremost, The Constitution, which it seems all military personal has violated, as well as officers at every level. This is the first, and must be the first object of protection. Without the Constitution, there is no President, nor is there a valid declaration of war.

But for the section you mentioned... It refers not to the regulations, but to the order of the commanding officer over him. (According to regulations and uniform code of military justice) So help us all.

Semper Fi.

You lost me. Could you try to re-post your thoughts in a legible manner? Then I will be more than happy to let you know how wrong you really are.

Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the Pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever Gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.

In the fell clutch of Circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of Chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.

Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds, and shall find me, unafraid.

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

[Tritium]

Originally Posted by Peligroso27

You lost me. Could you try to re-post your thoughts in a legible manner? Then I will be more than happy to let you know how wrong you really are.

Sorry, my mind works much faster than I think, which is why it is difficult to bring myself to a level of expression that can be understood by most. That is a fault of mine, but one that I wouldn't trade for the benefits it provides.

The Constitution is the first object in which the attention is given in the oath. It would seem that all military personal has broken their oath for not protecting the Constitution, which above all else is to be protected. (Including orders by the President.) I didn't grab this out of my @ss, but this is something that was explained to myself, and others while in boot camp. (Parris Island, SC.)
Without the Constitution, there is no President, nor could there be a valid declaration of war. Without a Commander and Chief, there could be no orders given to the military.

In reference to the section you mentioned... It does not refer to the "regulations" as you stated, however, it refers instead to the "orders" of the commanding officer over him. (According to regulations and uniform code of military justice.)

I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).

No response is necessary, I don't like arguing with a person incapable of looking the information to be certain before he speaks. while I may from time to time be inaccurate, I am willing to admit the mistake as it is pointed out to me, and a majority of my responses are investigated prior to completing my posts. Something all people who make judgements should do.

[Peligroso27]

Do you really expect me to swallow this crap? You need to rethink your argument and for God's sake, make a valid point. You could not expect me to argue because you are only regurgitating rhetoric you heard on NPR I assume.

Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the Pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever Gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.

In the fell clutch of Circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of Chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.

Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds, and shall find me, unafraid.

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

[Tritium]

Originally Posted by Peligroso27

Do you really expect me to swallow this crap? You need to rethink your argument and for God's sake, make a valid point. You could not expect me to argue because you are only regurgitating rhetoric you heard on NPR I assume.

Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the Pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever Gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.

In the fell clutch of Circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of Chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.

Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds, and shall find me, unafraid.

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

And it is due to people like yourself that we're in the economic downturn we're seeing now. Please, if you're going to respond, then have a real argument, rather than singing a song, or reciting a poem. Unintelligent banter is no argument.

What I state is truth, and quoted the source that was brought to my attention to prove my point, rather than work against it, and if you can't prove how I am wrong, well... keep listening to fox news.