Article 117

[paratrooper20]

This is in reference to a event here in Iraq; approx two weeks ago there was a question as to procedurce; a senior NCO came forward and in a loud threatening tone, put his finger in my face and began yelling. I did not respond to the percieved threat at the time, but I am wondering would his actions contitute provorking speech and gestures?
I've held back any actions til I'm sure that there are grounds, and by the way there were eye witnesses. Is there a case on my part.

[fozzy2]

The legal standard usually involves speech or gestures that "a reasonable person would expect to induce a breach of the peace under the circumstances."

Waving a finger in someone's face usually doesn't qualify, even when accompanied by a harsh tone. Particularly in the military a "reasonable person" would not lash out at such action. A provoking gesture is often one that realistically implies physical violence -- such as pointing a weapon or swinging a fist. Likewise, simple swearing or a harsh tone usually don't suffice for provoking speech.

From the description, it is highly doubtful this would make it to court martial at any rate. The chain-of-command might treat it simply as "bad leadership" or an "anger management" issue. Or you might be told to not be so overly sensitive. It all depends on the context and the command.

[cmtishler]

Ok, what is your rank?? If you are an E-4 or below I hate to say it but according to the military regs that senior NCO did not break the rules as long as he did not PHYSICALLY make any contact with you. It all also depends on the situation. If you were honestly in the wrong then there is nothing you can do except drive on, however, part of the regs state that in a combat situation every situation MUST be delt with in a civilized and CALM manner because it could cause an unexpected response from the soldier. Every soldier over there carries a weapon with at least a 30 round mag of Force Protection ammo attached and if anyone spikes another person well you know what could happen. If I were you I would take it up to your 1st sgt, and if you have witnesses MAKE SURE YOU BRING THEM WITH YOU!!!

[badapple40]

What is your rank, and, equally important, what exactly did he say?

[paratrooper20]

Originally Posted by badapple40

What is your rank, and, equally important, what exactly did he say?

SSG, The SFC came to the position 3-4 hours after the event, and not having witnessed anything and with secondhand knowledge only, presumed that I was at fault. His exactly words were that I should of known better than to do "stupid **** like that". Then he came with the finger; later it was brought to light that there was no SOP/criteria to violate in the first place. Since then, I have been removed from my postion without 4856 couseling on anything that I've done wrong, and placed in detail postions normally held by SGT's
After rethinking the event, I feel that the tone of speech was the most provoking thing about it, I don't if profanity in a problem in the Army and there's still the finger in the face.
If I've been removed from my duty position without 4856 counseling, wouldn't that constitute a unlawful discrimination? If they still intend to counsel on the event and move to UCMJ how long do they have to do it, it's been almost two weeks now. If there is no published SOP/criteria on a operation, how exactly do they plan to prosecute; especially when I've done the same thing, the same way for almost nine months now. The chain of command said nothing, did nothing, didn't advise any other way of doing this.
Until mysteriously two weeks ago, it was a problem.

[paratrooper20]

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As a result of the events of 23 July, I have been removed from the position I held and releigated to positions normally performed by NCO's of lower rank. This being done without 4856 counseling on the cause for action, there was no breech of policy because none exist. All duties were performed the same way, every time for almost nine months, then mysteriously there was a problem. Would the senior NCO's actions constitute an unlawful discrimination?