AWOL back to Ft. Knox PCF

[tate310]

how can you be certain as to when you can turn yourself in to either Knox or Sill without the chance of getting sent back to your old unit? also once you are dropped from rolls are you automatically eligible to PCF?

[UtorVita]

Originally Posted by tate310

how can you be certain as to when you can turn yourself in to either Knox or Sill without the chance of getting sent back to your old unit? also once you are dropped from rolls are you automatically eligible to PCF?

You are not automatically eligible once dropped from rolls. It just makes it easier. If you went AWOL as a trainee (did NOT complete basic or AIT) you'll probably have an easy time at PCF - that is if your unit doesn't want you back and everything at JAG goes well. Its never a guarantee you'll get an OTH discharge just because you ask for one, but about 95% or more do.

[andrew anderson]

Good post. I'd just like to add that your financial aid will not be negatively effected. In fact, for me, it was increased. As a military veteran(and you are a veteran by financial aid standards)you are an independent student, thus, your aid is based on your income, not your parents. So, in all likelihood, your financial aid will increase.

[ERAUPIKE]

Originally Posted by andrew anderson

Good post. I'd just like to add that your financial aid will not be negatively effected. In fact, for me, it was increased. As a military veteran(and you are a veteran by financial aid standards)you are an independent student, thus, your aid is based on your income, not your parents. So, in all likelihood, your financial aid will increase.

A deserter's financial aid is decreased significantly.

The new Montgomery G.I. Bill, post 9-11 Chapter 33, will cover 100% of your tuition and fee's in any state school. A small percentage of private university's accepted the "Yellow Ribbon" program that will allow veteran's to attend private university's for free as well. The G.I. Bill also offers a $1000 stipend for books, E-5 w/ dependent BAH for your area, and $100 dollars a month for tutoring. There will not be one deserter eligible for this financial aid.

FASFA or federal student loans are based solely on the amount of credit hours a student has completed and have nothing to do with the prior service of a student.

Federal or state grants that are offered to veterans are only available to those who have received honorable discharges. Yes, it is one of the questions on the application.

Scholarships offered through the Veteran's Administration (VA) are only offered to students who are receiving G.I. Bill benefits. Deserters can not receive grants or scholarships through the VA.

The first question your school will ask is why you are not receiving Chapter 33 or 30 benefits as a veteran when you ask for financial aid because you are a "veteran". You will then have to tell them your little sob story about why you ran away and hid. They will then refer you to some student worker that will not be able to assist you in anyway.

You should be ashamed to even consider referring to yourself as a veteran.

[andrew anderson]

Originally Posted by ERAUPIKE

A deserter's financial aid is decreased significantly.

The new Montgomery G.I. Bill, post 9-11 Chapter 33, will cover 100% of your tuition and fee's in any state school. A small percentage of private university's accepted the "Yellow Ribbon" program that will allow veteran's to attend private university's for free as well. The G.I. Bill also offers a $1000 stipend for books, E-5 w/ dependent BAH for your area, and $100 dollars a month for tutoring. There will not be one deserter eligible for this financial aid.

FASFA or federal student loans are based solely on the amount of credit hours a student has completed and have nothing to do with the prior service of a student.

Federal or state grants that are offered to veterans are only available to those who have received honorable discharges. Yes, it is one of the questions on the application.

Scholarships offered through the Veteran's Administration (VA) are only offered to students who are receiving G.I. Bill benefits. Deserters can not receive grants or scholarships through the VA.

The first question your school will ask is why you are not receiving Chapter 33 or 30 benefits as a veteran when you ask for financial aid because you are a "veteran". You will then have to tell them your little sob story about why you ran away and hid. They will then refer you to some student worker that will not be able to assist you in anyway.

You should be ashamed to even consider referring to yourself as a veteran.

Between the misinformed self congratulation and semi legible ranting, this post if filled with inaccuracy. First, "financial aid" is a generalist term that can refer to the specific governmental aid programs funded by state and national government, as well as generalist terms used to describe any various monies for academia. As such, if you prefer the latter, yes, obviously the servicemen will be without military granted aid as a deserter. However, as I stated, for most young enlisted servicemen whose parents earn a decent living, the financial aid status of "independent" via "Veteran" status will allow for a significant increase in grants. Veteran status is slightly different for financial aid status; any servicemen discharged with anything other than Dishonorable is required to identify with said status for financial aid purposes. Nobody in the school with ask you anything about your lack of military aid. They will merely request a copy of your DD214.

As for your little dig at the end, please, wise up kiddo. My moral and intellectual capacities surpass levels of thinking you're even capable of considering. There is nothing moral about blindly following the chain of command and engaging in illegal wars.

The unspoken oath of personal moral responsibility comes before country for the literate and moral. Do more book learnin,' and less "yes sir"in'.

[newyorkman]

I actually found this thread today while I was looking up whether or not turning myself into PCF is considered an arrest. I'm happy I wrote about my experience and hope it has given confidence and help to those trainees unhappy with the decision they made. Sorry I didn't get a chance to answer questions, but most of them I wouldn't have been able to answer anyway, given that I am not a lawyer. I will address a couple of questions to aid in this discussion and help those that view this thread and are contemplating making this radical life choice.

1. Education money, financial aid, pell all that good stuff.
I was specifically told that financial aid from the government would not be made available to me ever. (I am not sure if this includes both federal and state, or just federal). The JAG officer made this quite clear to me, he followed it up by saying that most people can make up this money in the form of scholarships.
A person claiming to be a GI rights lawyer has posted this to be a false assertion, and that the GI rights bill does not apply while all other civilian forms of financial aid are available. I have not applied for school yet, so I cannot say for a fact whether this is true or not. But I will attest to it that a JAG lawyer at the PCF told me stone cold that financial aid will not only be limited, but be non-existent. Like many, I am crossing every limb on my body in hopes that the GI rights lawyer is correct and that pell and FAFSA are available to me.
Along with that, he mentioned that anyone with an AWOL as a reason for their OTH would most likely be barred from law enforcement positions. (I asked him about the NYPD, he said they most likely wouldn't take anyone with an AWOL under them). This was his speculation, the NYPD does allow people with an OTH to apply.
Jobs will ask you on their applications for reasons why you were given an OTH. OTH doesn't always mean you went AWOL, it could include minor offenses that somehow got you barred from continuing your service.

2. Yes, they do give you an option to seek reinstatement to your former command. Even with pending military offenses (article 15's and whatnot), you are given a choice to be brought back in. How this process goes? I don't know, but I know we were all asked whether we wanted it or not and several of us talked to the Lt. Laplace and some NCO's, who would be the first filter to judge whether or not we were competent enough to be recycled back in. Personally, I was a stand up trainee, never took a sick day, passed all my tests, ran in the A group, and actually enjoyed my brief time in the Army, I feel I could have easily gotten back in. Some of the kids there who were mentally unbalanced, undisciplined, or just plain crazy, probably would not have gone far in their request to stay in the Army and continue training.

3. Someone asked about going AWOL in Iraq.
Common sense tells me that awol/desertion laws are enforced specifically for those who desert during combat. After all, with all army suicide rate and all of the horror stories of post traumatic stress disorder, how many soldiers do you think would take advantage of a relaxed desertion policy? As for trainees, most people who receive this "quick" OTH are not criminals. They are usually confused, dumb kids. How would the Army look in the eyes of an increasingly liberal nation, if they send scared 18 year old boys and girls to a military prison because "they wanted to go home and see their mommy" =****(

Finally, I don't consider myself a veteran. Maybe a veteran of basic training =P but certainly not an Army veteran. In fact, this is one of my points as I ask for an upgrade on my OTH, is that I wouldn't ever consider myself a veteran. Its just plain silly. But, legally I am considered to be a veteran of the Armed Forces with a general discharge under other than honorable conditions. Get it?

Whatever your reasons, do not let those preachers, or army vets, or current soldiers, berate or belittle you for making such a daring and powerful decision to free yourself. Though anybody who goes AWOL because they didn't like it should not ever seek commendation, but rather be humble and modest about what they've done. Make no mistake about it, they have made a heroic decision by not putting themselves in a situation where they could be a liability to their battles buddies and the mission in and of itself. Imagine a cowardly medic who was afraid to go AWOL but was scared ****less about what was expected out him and had serious drawbacks and hesitations. Do you want this guy next to you in battle?
Though it can't be advertised that the punishment for desertion during training is of little consequence, I suspect that the current policy is so because it is one way to filter out those people that the Army would not want to carry anyway.

Hope I've added to the discussion, and will not draw the vile of Army lifers with a flag stuck up their ass! (just kidddddding lol)

[ERAUPIKE]

Originally Posted by newyorkman

I actually found this thread today while I was looking up whether or not turning myself into PCF is considered an arrest. I'm happy I wrote about my experience and hope it has given confidence and help to those trainees unhappy with the decision they made. Sorry I didn't get a chance to answer questions, but most of them I wouldn't have been able to answer anyway, given that I am not a lawyer. I will address a couple of questions to aid in this discussion and help those that view this thread and are contemplating making this radical life choice.

This should be interesting.

Originally Posted by newyorkman

1. Education money, financial aid, pell all that good stuff.
I was specifically told that financial aid from the government would not be made available to me ever. (I am not sure if this includes both federal and state, or just federal). The JAG officer made this quite clear to me, he followed it up by saying that most people can make up this money in the form of scholarships.
A person claiming to be a GI rights lawyer has posted this to be a false assertion, and that the GI rights bill does not apply while all other civilian forms of financial aid are available. I have not applied for school yet, so I cannot say for a fact whether this is true or not. But I will attest to it that a JAG lawyer at the PCF told me stone cold that financial aid will not only be limited, but be non-existent. Like many, I am crossing every limb on my body in hopes that the GI rights lawyer is correct and that pell and FAFSA are available to me.
Along with that, he mentioned that anyone with an AWOL as a reason for their OTH would most likely be barred from law enforcement positions. (I asked him about the NYPD, he said they most likely wouldn't take anyone with an AWOL under them). This was his speculation, the NYPD does allow people with an OTH to apply.
Jobs will ask you on their applications for reasons why you were given an OTH. OTH doesn't always mean you went AWOL, it could include minor offenses that somehow got you barred from continuing your service.

You can bet that any law enforcement agency is going to toss your application in the round file without a second thought.

Originally Posted by newyorkman

2. Yes, they do give you an option to seek reinstatement to your former command. Even with pending military offenses (article 15's and whatnot), you are given a choice to be brought back in. How this process goes? I don't know, but I know we were all asked whether we wanted it or not and several of us talked to the Lt. Laplace and some NCO's, who would be the first filter to judge whether or not we were competent enough to be recycled back in. Personally, I was a stand up trainee, never took a sick day, passed all my tests, ran in the A group, and actually enjoyed my brief time in the Army, I feel I could have easily gotten back in. Some of the kids there who were mentally unbalanced, undisciplined, or just plain crazy, probably would not have gone far in their request to stay in the Army and continue training.

You were an excellent trainee, except for the whole running away incident. The one test you didn't pass was honoring your voluntary contract, you failed that miserably.

Originally Posted by newyorkman

3. Someone asked about going AWOL in Iraq.
Common sense tells me that awol/desertion laws are enforced specifically for those who desert during combat. After all, with all army suicide rate and all of the horror stories of post traumatic stress disorder, how many soldiers do you think would take advantage of a relaxed desertion policy? As for trainees, most people who receive this "quick" OTH are not criminals. They are usually confused, dumb kids. How would the Army look in the eyes of an increasingly liberal nation, if they send scared 18 year old boys and girls to a military prison because "they wanted to go home and see their mommy" =****(

They would appear to be enforcing the laws governing voluntary service. 18 year olds are considered adults and the "ever increasing liberal nation" you speak of generally shuns these cowards. A criminal is someone who breaks the law, including you. They send these scared young men and women to prison for breaking the laws that govern military service.

Originally Posted by newyorkman

Finally, I don't consider myself a veteran. Maybe a veteran of basic training =P but certainly not an Army veteran. In fact, this is one of my points as I ask for an upgrade on my OTH, is that I wouldn't ever consider myself a veteran. Its just plain silly. But, legally I am considered to be a veteran of the Armed Forces with a general discharge under other than honorable conditions. Get it?

A veteran is a person who served on active duty for more than 180 days or was discharged or released, other than dishonorable discharge, or was released or discharged because of a service connected disability. Those who were medically discharged or are a member of a Guard or Reserve unit called to 'Active Duty' during any length or period of war or campaign for which a campaign ribbon was awarded are also eligible.

You will not receive an upgrade because you were only in for a little while before you ran away. You are stuck with the decision you made for the rest of your life now.

Originally Posted by newyorkman

Whatever your reasons, do not let those preachers, or army vets, or current soldiers, berate or belittle you for making such a daring and powerful decision to free yourself. Though anybody who goes AWOL because they didn't like it should not ever seek commendation, but rather be humble and modest about what they've done. Make no mistake about it, they have made a heroic decision by not putting themselves in a situation where they could be a liability to their battles buddies and the mission in and of itself. Imagine a cowardly medic who was afraid to go AWOL but was scared ****less about what was expected out him and had serious drawbacks and hesitations. Do you want this guy next to you in battle?
Though it can't be advertised that the punishment for desertion during training is of little consequence, I suspect that the current policy is so because it is one way to filter out those people that the Army would not want to carry anyway.

I cringe to think you actually believe this malarkey. You put forth a valiant effort to justify your actions but canonizing deserters is not going to make your opinion popular or accurate.

Originally Posted by newyorkman

Hope I've added to the discussion, and will not draw the vile of Army lifers with a flag stuck up their ass! (just kidddddding lol)

I am in no way a "lifer" but my honorable service is something I am proud to have completed. You will not ever have the chance to say the same.

[girightslawyer]

Originally Posted by newyorkman

1. Education money, financial aid, pell all that good stuff.
I was specifically told that financial aid from the government would not be made available to me ever. (I am not sure if this includes both federal and state, or just federal). The JAG officer made this quite clear to me, he followed it up by saying that most people can make up this money in the form of scholarships.
A person claiming to be a GI rights lawyer has posted this to be a false assertion, and that the GI rights bill does not apply while all other civilian forms of financial aid are available. I have not applied for school yet, so I cannot say for a fact whether this is true or not. But I will attest to it that a JAG lawyer at the PCF told me stone cold that financial aid will not only be limited, but be non-existent. Like many, I am crossing every limb on my body in hopes that the GI rights lawyer is correct and that pell and FAFSA are available to me.

Hi Newyorkman,

Thanks for posting this. I have dealt with the TDS (Trial defense services) JAG at Fort Knox before and they are good folks, but they are wrong on this point.

You are eligible for Federal Student Financial aid. A bad discharge (even dishonorable) can't keep you from getting Federal Pell grants, student loans, work study, etc.

Here's what it says on the FAFSA.gov (free application for Federal student aid) website:

From: [url=http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/faq003.htm]FAFSA - Free Application for Federal Student Aid[/url]

Who is eligible to receive Federal Student Aid?

To receive federal student aid, you must meet certain requirements. You must:
* Be a U.S. citizen or eligible noncitizen.
*Have a valid Social Security Number (unless you’re from the Republic of the Marshall Islands, the Federated States of Micronesia, or the Republic of Palau).
* Be registered with Selective Service if you are male and 18 to 25 years of age (go to [url=http://www.sss.gov]Selective Service System: Welcome[/url] for more information).
* Have a high school diploma or a General Education Development (GED) Certificate or pass an exam approved by the U.S. Department of Education.
* Be enrolled or accepted for enrollment as a regular student working toward a degree or certificate in an eligible program at a school that participates in the federal student aid programs.
* Not have a drug conviction for an offense that occurred while you were receiving federal student aid (such as grants, loans, or work-study).
Also:
* You must not owe a refund on a federal grant or be in default on a federal student loan.
* You must demonstrate financial need (except for unsubsidized Stafford Loans).
Other requirements may apply. Contact your school’s financial aid office for more information.

My recommendation is that anyone who is discharged from PCF and wants to go to college this summer or fall, should go ahead and fill out the FAFSA. It's not a hard form to fill out, basically you just need your tax return from 2008 or a ballpark estimate of your income if you didn't have to file taxes.

And for most students going to a public college or university, your federal financial aid will pay for everything tuition, fees and books wise. You probably will even get some money for living expenses. This is something the military recruiters don't like for folks to know, but the GI Bill really isn't that big a deal. If you are low to middle income, you are going to get good financial aid. --- Private schools are a different matter of course, but that's where other sources of aid come in, including scholarships and whatnot from the school itself.

Good luck to you and all who are going on to school after being freed from the Army. Don't listen to the wanna-be badasses who want you to think your life is now ruined. It just ain't true. Your life has a long ways to go and you can make whatever you want out of it.

[ERAUPIKE]

Originally Posted by girightslawyer

Hi Newyorkman,

Thanks for posting this. I have dealt with the TDS (Trial defense services) JAG at Fort Knox before and they are good folks, but they are wrong on this point.

You are eligible for Federal Student Financial aid. A bad discharge (even dishonorable) can't keep you from getting Federal Pell grants, student loans, work study, etc.

Here's what it says on the FAFSA.gov (free application for Federal student aid) website:

From: [url=http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/faq003.htm]FAFSA - Free Application for Federal Student Aid[/url]



My recommendation is that anyone who is discharged from PCF and wants to go to college this summer or fall, should go ahead and fill out the FAFSA. It's not a hard form to fill out, basically you just need your tax return from 2008 or a ballpark estimate of your income if you didn't have to file taxes.

And for most students going to a public college or university, your federal financial aid will pay for everything tuition, fees and books wise. You probably will even get some money for living expenses. This is something the military recruiters don't like for folks to know, but the GI Bill really isn't that big a deal. If you are low to middle income, you are going to get good financial aid. --- Private schools are a different matter of course, but that's where other sources of aid come in, including scholarships and whatnot from the school itself.

Good luck to you and all who are going on to school after being freed from the Army. Don't listen to the wanna-be badasses who want you to think your life is now ruined. It just ain't true. Your life has a long ways to go and you can make whatever you want out of it.

Again I stress that the Chapter 33 GI Bill pays for the entirety of the recipients tuition and fees. You forgot to mention that with FASFA, you have to pay it back with interest. It is not financial aid, it is a loan.

It is also prudent to note that the curent economic climate makes getting private loans much more difficult.

The endowment of scholarships of many private intitutions are not aimed at the non-traditional student. Financial aid and scholarships are not as easy to obtain as you indicate.

Personally, I would much rather be going to school for free, getting paid to be in school, and recieving my veterans benefits. Many students are finding that upon graduation the job market offers little or no oppritunity for employment. The current economic policies in place are not advantageous to stimulate private sector growth and expansion. The federal job market on the other hand will be growing exponentially over the next few years. Deserters will not be considered for government service.

[girightslawyer]

Eraupike,

Why do you get off on discouraging people from succeeding in their lives? Seriously, just because someone doesn't want to stay in the military doesn't mean they should be screwed.

Here's the facts on financial aid. Federal Financial Aid (that is non-military financial aid you get via the FAFSA) is a mix of Pell Grants, work-study and student loans if you are an undergrad student, and is student loans only if you are a graduate student.

* Pell grants are free money which you do not have to pay back.

* Work-study allows you to work on campus (when I was in college, I worked in the school's computer lab and in the library). The big plus is that since the money is from the federal government and not from the school itself, you are more likely to get an on-campus job (colleges love to have employees that they themselves don't have to pay for)

* Student loans you do have to pay back, however the interest rates are outrageously low. And you have the option of consolidating them later to get an even lower interest rate. (my loans are at 3% interest rate) Plus you can deferments as long as you stay in school, or under certain other situations, such as unemployment, under-employment, disability, etc.

* There are also PLUS loans available if you need them, but these are loans your parents have to co-sign on. I didn't want my parents to have take on that responsibility so I never took those out.

It's been awhile since I was undergrad (I got my bachelor's degree in 2000), but back then about half of my total student loan package was Pell grants & work-study and half was student loans. Graduate school is a different matter, but hopefully one's income will justify the expense of student loans.

All of this is to stay that I can testify to the fact that you can go to college, no matter how broke you are. I wanted to pay for college with minimal help from my family (I have 4 brothers and 1 sister) and I did it. So can you. If you can be frugal with living expenses and/or work part-time, it is totally do-able.

[girightslawyer]

Also Eraupike is wrong about deserters not being considered for government service.

Generally the only jobs that PCF-returnees would be turned down for are rejoining the military (but who would be dumb enough to reenlist after you got out) and some law enforcement jobs.

Most other government jobs, it is a non-issue. Employers generally care more about you being honest on your job application (hiding your OTH discharge is a bigger sin than revealing it), and WHY you got the discharge. If you got a bad discharge for committing a violent crime, embezzlement, dealing drugs, that's a problem for employers.

Deserting (quiting your job early without permission) is not such a big deal for most employers. There are again pseudo-patriots out there who might throw a stink about it, but just as many people would be MORE likely to hire you because you deserted. I for one would give deserters preference if I was hiring because I would know you have the character to face persecution for what you believe in.

[ERAUPIKE]

Originally Posted by girightslawyer

Why do you get off on discouraging people from succeeding in their lives? Seriously, just because someone doesn't want to stay in the military doesn't mean they should be screwed.

I enjoy telling people the truth and not presenting a biased and false opinion as fact.

Originally Posted by girightslawyer

Here's the facts on financial aid. Federal Financial Aid (that is non-military financial aid you get via the FAFSA) is a mix of Pell Grants, work-study and student loans if you are an undergrad student, and is student loans only if you are a graduate student.

Stafford loans are what 90% of students who apply through FASFA will receive. A Stafford loan will not cover the entirety of state school tuition until a students junior year.Work study is in no way connected to FASFA. Again, student loans must be paid back, all the benefits received from the GI Bill do not.

Originally Posted by girightslawyer

* Pell grants are free money which you do not have to pay back.

And 99% of these cowards will not qualify for a Pell Grant.

Originally Posted by girightslawyer

* Work-study allows you to work on campus (when I was in college, I worked in the school's computer lab and in the library). The big plus is that since the money is from the federal government and not from the school itself, you are more likely to get an on-campus job (colleges love to have employees that they themselves don't have to pay for)

Incorrect again, work study is a program that allows students to work for a minimal amount of hours in different areas around the school for minimum wage. The funds for work study are taken from the schools operating budget.

Originally Posted by girightslawyer

* Student loans you do have to pay back, however the interest rates are outrageously low. And you have the option of consolidating them later to get an even lower interest rate. (my loans are at 3% interest rate) Plus you can deferments as long as you stay in school, or under certain other situations, such as unemployment, under-employment, disability, etc.

You are lying again. The interest rates on Stafford Loans which are considered the most secure are still 6% and 7% for the subsidized and unsubsidized portions.

Originally Posted by girightslawyer

* There are also PLUS loans available if you need them, but these are loans your parents have to co-sign on. I didn't want my parents to have take on that responsibility so I never took those out.

I am sure that after being discharged from the military your parents will be more than happy to cosign a loan. You have after all proved your commitment to finishing what you start right?

Originally Posted by girightslawyer

It's been awhile since I was undergrad (I got my bachelor's degree in 2000), but back then about half of my total student loan package was Pell grants & work-study and half was student loans. Graduate school is a different matter, but hopefully one's income will justify the expense of student loans.

That's great, so you are just saying that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about then.

Originally Posted by girightslawyer

All of this is to stay that I can testify to the fact that you can go to college, no matter how broke you are. I wanted to pay for college with minimal help from my family (I have 4 brothers and 1 sister) and I did it. So can you. If you can be frugal with living expenses and/or work part-time, it is totally do-able.

I never said that college was impossible. I said that college is much easier after an honorable discharge. Students can receive free tuition, no fees, and money to live. The benefits of this new GI Bill far outweigh any discomfort these cowards are currently facing in the United States Armed Forces.

Originally Posted by girightslawyer

Also Eraupike is wrong about deserters not being considered for government service.

No, I am correct. Prove me wrong or stop giving these losers false hope.

Originally Posted by girightslawyer

Generally the only jobs that PCF-returnees would be turned down for are rejoining the military (but who would be dumb enough to reenlist after you got out) and some law enforcement jobs.

Your bias is showing.

Originally Posted by girightslawyer

Most other government jobs, it is a non-issue. Employers generally care more about you being honest on your job application (hiding your OTH discharge is a bigger sin than revealing it), and WHY you got the discharge. If you got a bad discharge for committing a violent crime, embezzlement, dealing drugs, that's a problem for employers.

So is deserting and being discharged for it.

Originally Posted by girightslawyer

Deserting (quiting your job early without permission) is not such a big deal for most employers. There are again pseudo-patriots out there who might throw a stink about it, but just as many people would be MORE likely to hire you because you deserted. I for one would give deserters preference if I was hiring because I would know you have the character to face persecution for what you believe in.

You can say this because you know most employers? You are so full of it. I can see that interview now.
You: So I see from your DD214 you were discharged for deserting.

Deserter: Yes, I can't commit to anything and my life is always a wreck. I have mental issues that will pop up when things get hard. Don't worry if you remove any of the pressure from my job they will magically disappear.

You: I am so proud of your bravery to waste the money tax payers around this country have worked so hard to earn.

Deserter: I also forgot to mention that I have random distant relatives that will become sick from time to time and will require my immediate care without any notice. I hope you don't mind if I insist on coming and going as I please.

You: That is fine. In fact, as a salaried employee here at B.S. Inc. I will even continue to pay you. We don't like to have any productivity or even turn a profit. I just want all my employees to regress back to their wholly dependent toddler years.

Deserter: This sounds like my cup of tea. I'll sign any employment contract you have voluntarily. I would like you to be aware that I have not ever nor do I ever plan to honor any voluntary contract.

You: Don't worry I applaud your bravery to run away from your obligations. I always wondered what was so funny about the Bizzaro World comics.

In closing, you cannot deny that the benefits offered through the GI Bill and especially Chapter 33 are far greater than any FASFA related aid a student may receive. That has been my point throughout this entire thread. Your close minded liberal anti-military bias did not allow you to comprehend that fact. Bell Helicopters does not hire any individual that does not have an honorable discharge. Rockwell-Collins has the same policy. HR at Toyota, Nissan, or Ford will toss a deserter out on their ear. Dell, Samsung, and Microsoft will not hire anyone with an OTH discharge or worse either. Enterprise, Alamo, and Hertz also have company policies against hiring any person that was discharged with a General discharge or worse.

These are just a few examples of actual companies that exist and are currently seeking employees. You can only state one made up situation in which a deserter would have preference over a service member that received an honorable discharge.

[SHORTY LONG]

girightslawyer, Any meaningful Employment be it
Government or in the private sector will most certainly bear scrutiny from a
[BAD] discharge; and to say the least, the sad piece of scum will not be hired
(especially Government). Likewise, even fast food chains are cracking down
on hiring such with bad paper!

Lastly, if you continue your course in posting such misleading advice, I will
not only report you here for such, but will also file a complaint against you
with the American Bar Association for your act[s].



[/b]

Originally Posted by girightslawyer

Also Eraupike is wrong about deserters not being considered for government service.

Generally the only jobs that PCF-returnees would be turned down for are rejoining the military (but who would be dumb enough to reenlist after you got out) and some law enforcement jobs.

Most other government jobs, it is a non-issue. Employers generally care more about you being honest on your job application (hiding your OTH discharge is a bigger sin than revealing it), and WHY you got the discharge. If you got a bad discharge for committing a violent crime, embezzlement, dealing drugs, that's a problem for employers.

Deserting (quiting your job early without permission) is not such a big deal for most employers. There are again pseudo-patriots out there who might throw a stink about it, but just as many people would be MORE likely to hire you because you deserted. I for one would give deserters preference if I was hiring because I would know you have the character to face persecution for what you believe in.

[ERAUPIKE]

Originally Posted by girightslawyer

Also Eraupike is wrong about deserters not being considered for government service.

Generally the only jobs that PCF-returnees would be turned down for are rejoining the military (but who would be dumb enough to reenlist after you got out) and some law enforcement jobs.

Most other government jobs, it is a non-issue. Employers generally care more about you being honest on your job application (hiding your OTH discharge is a bigger sin than revealing it), and WHY you got the discharge. If you got a bad discharge for committing a violent crime, embezzlement, dealing drugs, that's a problem for employers.

Deserting (quiting your job early without permission) is not such a big deal for most employers. There are again pseudo-patriots out there who might throw a stink about it, but just as many people would be MORE likely to hire you because you deserted. I for one would give deserters preference if I was hiring because I would know you have the character to face persecution for what you believe in.

But in another post you stated:

Originally Posted by girightslawyer

Short answer...

If you are facing a special court-martial, you need to get a lawyer NOW. If you have a good defense JAG great, but if not then hire a civilian one ASAP. I don't do marine cases, but I can say that in the Army this kind of treatment would be way excessive (you normally should only get a counseling statement or maybe an article 15 for this... shoot, I think they call an article 15 something different in the Marines).

Anyway though, you've been in too long to have your record screwed up like this. Besides the crummy discharge (again a big deal, as you will lose your GI bill eligibility which you would otherwise get with your longer service) you also could be facing jail time.

So is this a big deal or not? If you have only spent a few months in the Armed Forces then an OTH won't provide the same negative consequences?

I agree with Shorty, you need a new hobby or you need to post actual legal advice. You are still a joke.

[surfgirl]

I am not here to be flamed or disrespected by anyone so please don't lower yourself by doing it! I am a wife of a man that deserted 10 years ago due to horrific family issues at the time (his mother was on her death bed and two much younger siblings at that time they were 9 and 12 had no one to care for them) he tried to get a hardship but the process was taking to long and his sister were alone and he did not want them to go into foster care! During his first month of being gone after 3 years of service he met me I am a proud daughter of a USMC Vietnam Vet as first I had a hard time with his decision but after seeing what his family was going through I did understand. He struggled with his decision daily but his first duty was to his family and I loved him for that and still due to this day. He is a wonderful man, loving father and provider he has worked and paid taxes the entire time he has been gone, he reported a crime this week (he saw a male with a gun assult another male) and when he did the officer not only arrested the man with the gun but he checked my husband and took him in, this was something we knew could always happen. My main question is he is now at Fort Knox as the MP that escorted him there let him call me last night before they went on base, is how long will he be there since he didn't get there until late last night (thursday). I have spoken to his employer (who retained a lawyer for him ) he will still have his job if he is able to return with in 2 weeks, is it possible for him to be processed within that time? I see that others have written that it is, I just want to make sure it is. Thank you in advance for any good honest advice anyone can give me and no thank you to anyone that just wants to belittle my family I don't need it, understand ERAUPIKE?