Brother just got pinched as AWOL... badapple40 please help!

[aklarand]

What is the name of your state?
Georgia

My brother enlisted in the ARMY in August 2000. During basic he sustained an injury to his elbow that made progression impossible. The army decided that they would not discharge him but would instead operate on base. The person performing this very complicated procedure would have been a physical therapist and thus, my brother got scared. He asked his CO what to do and the CO actually ADVISED AWOL.

In January, my brother received what he thought were discharge orders. I just read them fully for the first time and it seems to not be the case but actually a reassignment to the 30th AG (Reception Battalion) at Ft. Benning, GA. He didn't follow up on this and thus figured that he was discharged. According to the military, he seems to have been marked as a deserter and the standard Warrant was filed with the Federal office.

Tonight he got picked up by the police for a routine traffic violation. He's currently in county lock-up awaiting MPs to take him off to, presumably, Ft. Benning.

The question is simple: What can I expect for him? He's just gotten on his feet after a long period of bad luck and I'm just trying to come to grips with the ramifications of this issue. Please tell me what will happen from here.

[acmb05]

That his CO would advise someone to go AWOL. Anyway he is probably looking at a General Discharge for the good of the service.

Where was he picked up?

He will more than likely get sent to Ft. Leavenworth for out processing. If so be prepared to go and get him because they wont give him a ticket back home.

[badapple40]

General discharge? Are you serious?? He's looking at a other than honorable discharge, and that is if they do not court-martial him.

Because this AWOL was terminated by apprehension, I would expect that he's got a 25/25/50 chance of looking at a special court-martial authorized to adjudge a BCD, a 25% chance of facing an article 15, bust in grade, 45 days extra duty/restriction, and 50% of the other than honorable administrative discharge. It depends on whose wheaties he's pissed on thus far, and, in part, who the convening authority is at Benning.

[acmb05]

Originally Posted by badapple40

General discharge? Are you serious?? He's looking at a other than honorable discharge, and that is if they do not court-martial him.

Because this AWOL was terminated by apprehension, I would expect that he's got a 25/25/50 chance of looking at a special court-martial authorized to adjudge a BCD, a 25% chance of facing an article 15, bust in grade, 45 days extra duty/restriction, and 50% of the other than honorable administrative discharge. It depends on whose wheaties he's pissed on thus far, and, in part, who the convening authority is at Benning.

I have seen it happen that way on many occasions.

General discharge under less than honorable conditions.

[acmb05]

Originally Posted by badapple40

General discharge? Are you serious?? He's looking at a other than honorable discharge, and that is if they do not court-martial him.

Because this AWOL was terminated by apprehension, I would expect that he's got a 25/25/50 chance of looking at a special court-martial authorized to adjudge a BCD, a 25% chance of facing an article 15, bust in grade, 45 days extra duty/restriction, and 50% of the other than honorable administrative discharge. It depends on whose wheaties he's pissed on thus far, and, in part, who the convening authority is at Benning.

On most of the ones I transported IF the end of thier active enlistment was up before they got caught they did not prosecute but simply put them out of the service. Of course I also know some who they gave a choice, stay in and finish your inactive duty in the guard and take the punishment or get out.

[badapple40]

Originally Posted by acmb05

I have seen it happen that way on many occasions.

General discharge under less than honorable conditions.

There is no such thing as a "general under less than honorable"

It is honorable, general under honorable, other than honorable, bad conduct, dishonorable, and, for officers, a dismissal.

[aklarand]

Thanks everyone for the information, it at least lets me get a realistic view of what's going on.

I suppose the fact that he never completed BCT is almost irrelevant?

acmb05: He was picked up by the local cops. As posted above, he never completed BCT so his active enlistment wasn't even really started.

So how long does this all take? I figure that if they give a general courts-martial, that's going to take months. I've read all over that there are options other than going to Ft. Leavenworth. How likely are those?

It is difficult to believe that an officer in the US Army would advise a soldier to go AWOL but I suppose stranger things have happened. If he could prove that then it would be huge for his defense. Badapple's advice is right on the money. There is no such thing as a General dishcarge under less than honorable conditions. Most likely he will recieve an OTH discharge assuming the AWOL is the only thing he did.

[csporluck]

So much for him reading his paperwork thoroughly. Discharge paperwork isn't complicated. I might sound like a jerk, but you know.. that seems to be the moral of this experience... READ THOROUGHLY!!!

[USNAVYO3]

If I were this kid, I would prepare for a court martial, and would take preparing for my defense very seriously.

What you are looking to avoid here is a trip to "the Big Chicken Dinner."

If it were me, I'd stow that stuff about the CO telling him to desert, unless that officer has since gone publicly insane and wore a pink tutu to the Holiday party.

Obviously he needs a JAG officer, or whatever they are called in the Army (I am a Navy O-3). I would be tempted to go for a "throw yourself on the mercy of the court" / full admission / "I was just a dumb kid who wanted to serve his country" tack. I am not directly experienced with courts martial -- thank the gods -- but I have used this to help a number of young knuckleheads "appeal" their OTH discharges (I volunteer for a vets' group).

Good luck.

You need it.

Originally Posted by AttorneyAtLawn

If Obviously he needs a JAG officer, or whatever they are called in the Army (I am a Navy O-3). I would be tempted to go for a "throw yourself on the mercy of the court" / full admission / "I was just a dumb kid who wanted to serve his country" tack. I am not directly experienced with courts martial -- thank the gods -- but I have used this to help a number of young knuckleheads "appeal" their OTH discharges (I volunteer for a vets' group).

Good luck.

You need it.

I am being serious when I ask this question. How well does that argument work in getting a discharge upgraded? And can you elaborate on the Vet group you volunteer for?

As far as him getting a JAG lawyer. This Army will provide they don't usually let stuff like not providing legal representation come back to bite them is the arse. If he can afford one a civilian lawyer would be better. I don't care what the JAG lawyers tell you about being objective and fighting for you. Officers in the military don't bite the hand that feeds them

[USNAVYO3]

Shoot. I just had a whole response eaten by the board. guess I will have to copy to clipboard next time first.

I am not qualified to comment on "how well" the tactic works with upgrades, as I am relatively new to the process. And note that, while I am an atty, the help I provide is largely in smoothing out (and it usually needs a LOT of it) the writing and helping the guys get proper references ("Marvin has been a pillar of his community since he left the Corps, but his discharge has left him unable to support his five children..." etc.) I can say that it CAN WORK. You appeal to a board.

I am a little reluctant to give out the name of the group publicly as I'd like to remain anon here, but help is available. Let me think of how to get you the info.

As far as your comment about JAG lawyers, perhaps you're right, but I've seen them fight like motherscratchers in NJPs and separations. I know a couple of formidable CAPT (O-6) defense JAGs I'd hate to meet in a dark courtroom.

Originally Posted by thepizzaguy

I am being serious when I ask this question. How well does that argument work in getting a discharge upgraded? And can you elaborate on the Vet group you volunteer for?

As far as him getting a JAG lawyer. This Army will provide they don't usually let stuff like not providing legal representation come back to bite them is the arse. If he can afford one a civilian lawyer would be better. I don't care what the JAG lawyers tell you about being objective and fighting for you. Officers in the military don't bite the hand that feeds them

Originally Posted by AttorneyAtLawn

Shoot. I just had a whole response eaten by the board. guess I will have to copy to clipboard next time first.

I am not qualified to comment on "how well" the tactic works with upgrades, as I am relatively new to the process. And note that, while I am an atty, the help I provide is largely in smoothing out (and it usually needs a LOT of it) the writing and helping the guys get proper references ("Marvin has been a pillar of his community since he left the Corps, but his discharge has left him unable to support his five children..." etc.) I can say that it CAN WORK. You appeal to a board.

I am a little reluctant to give out the name of the group publicly as I'd like to remain anon here, but help is available. Let me think of how to get you the info.

As far as your comment about JAG lawyers, perhaps you're right, but I've seen them fight like motherscratchers in NJPs and separations. I know a couple of formidable CAPT (O-6) defense JAGs I'd hate to meet in a dark courtroom.

I understand your wishes to remain anon you can e-mail me at [email]gungouvsej@kriocoucke.mailexpire.com[/email]

this is a temporary address for SPAM reasons.

I am very well informed as to how to file the sf180 for records and the discharge review boards. I also am very much aware that a huge percentage of these requests are turned down. While applying for a review is easy, getting it is not.

[patriotam22]

so can you update as to what happened lately? there is so many post where people send out one post then we never hear from again. I'd like to know how some of these things are resolved.