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  1. #1
    la9052 is offline Junior Member
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    General under honorable discharge

    California
    Our son is due to be discharged from the AF on Tuesday, Aug 2. He was given notice on Monday, so we're suffering a bit of whiplash. Seems like his unit really wants him gone.

    He's had a pretty good service record for the past 4 yrs. They tried to get him out last Dec. with a court martial for breaking a plane part and not repairing a plane properly. We spent money on an attorney and he was left with a CM on his record, but kept in the service. The repair he was accused of messing up turned out to be intact when the plane arrived post-CM and his crew saw it. Strike 1. When on leave in CA, he got accused of a DUI. No arrest, case isn't settled, but his unit and new cmdr said you're out. Looking for information on his rights, what his future looks like, what benefits he may be qualified for, and how much of a long shot will an upgrade be? He has hearing impairment and pretty heavy depression right now.
  2. #2
    Badam Dice is offline Member
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    Guhd better than oth.

    Your not getting the whole story. Court Martial for not repairing or breaking a replacement part is unlikely. Did he drop something in a nuclear reactor, it would have to be major is my point? More likely disobeying something, like DUI. CM is for misconduct not poor work center job performance.

    Your son will need to go to the VA website and do a pension and compensation application for his medical needs. His is still entitled to ever benefit except his MGIB with a general under honorable discharge.

    He might have received an OTH and is not telling you, in this case he would not be eligible for many benefits.

    Just sound a little bit fishy.

    Yes he can apply for a discharge upgrade from the AF. He will need to get all his ducks in a row because it is unlikely he will receive an upgrade.

    Good luck.
  3. #3
    Antigone* is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badam Dice View Post
    Your not getting the whole story. Court Martial for not repairing or breaking a replacement part is unlikely. Did he drop something in a nuclear reactor, it would have to be major is my point? More likely disobeying something, like DUI. CM is for misconduct not poor work center job performance.

    Your son will need to go to the VA website and do a pension and compensation application for his medical needs. His is still entitled to ever benefit except his MGIB with a general under honorable discharge.

    He might have received an OTH and is not telling you, in this case he would not be eligible for many benefits.

    Just sound a little bit fishy.

    Yes he can apply for a discharge upgrade from the AF. He will need to get all his ducks in a row because it is unlikely he will receive an upgrade.

    Good luck.
    The reason that mom/dad are not getting the whole story is because legally son is an adult and this truly does not involved mom/dad.

    t makes me wonder why mom/dad are so quick to step in and bail junior out instead of allowing him to handle his affairs like a man. Why isn't junior looking to take care of his own business
  4. #4
    ERAUPIKE is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by la9052 View Post
    California
    Our son is due to be discharged from the AF on Tuesday, Aug 2. He was given notice on Monday, so we\\\\\\\'re suffering a bit of whiplash. Seems like his unit really wants him gone.

    He\\\\\\\'s had a pretty good service record for the past 4 yrs. They tried to get him out last Dec. with a court martial for breaking a plane part and not repairing a plane properly. We spent money on an attorney and he was left with a CM on his record, but kept in the service. The repair he was accused of messing up turned out to be intact when the plane arrived post-CM and his crew saw it. Strike 1. When on leave in CA, he got accused of a DUI. No arrest, case isn\\\\\\\'t settled, but his unit and new cmdr said you\\\\\\\'re out. Looking for information on his rights, what his future looks like, what benefits he may be qualified for, and how much of a long shot will an upgrade be? He has hearing impairment and pretty heavy depression right now.
    Sounds like he isn\\\'t really the model Airman. The military takes A/C sabotage very seriously, he has the life of the entire crew in his hands when he works on the A/C.

    By accused of DUI, you really mean arrested for DUI while on leave. He has the right to another court martial. His benefits will depend on how he is separated and the RE code he receives. An upgrade isn\'t a long shot, it is impossible.
  5. #5
    Badam Dice is offline Member
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    Read this to self, in a slow drawn out tone.

    Quote Originally Posted by ERAUPIKE View Post
    Sounds like he isn\\\'t really the model Airman. The military takes A/C sabotage very seriously, he has the life of the entire crew in his hands when he works on the A/C.

    By accused of DUI, you really mean arrested for DUI while on leave. He has the right to another court martial. His benefits will depend on how he is separated and the RE code he receives. An upgrade isn\'t a long shot, it is impossible.
    Wrong again.

    Cite the regulation that reads RE codes have anything to do with benefits.

    Cite the regulation that reads upgrades are impossible.
  6. #6
    ERAUPIKE is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badam Dice View Post
    Wrong again.
    I fail to see where I was incorrect the first time. You never addressed the Army regulation I posted that showed you were completely wrong in another post. Would you like to continue that trend here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Badam Dice View Post
    Cite the regulation that reads RE codes have anything to do with benefits.
    CFR 38 and various other VA policies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badam Dice View Post
    Cite the regulation that reads upgrades are impossible.
    That isn\'t what I said. I said his would be impossible. The policy of the AFDRB is that a discharge can only be upgraded if the discharge was given unjustly or in error. This discharge does not appear to be either, making an upgrade impossible.

    Do you have some information you would like to add or a citation that will back up any of your claims, ever. You do realize that demanding someone cite a regulation mandates that you now need to do the same. I will anxiously await your reply.
  7. #7
    Brad Volk is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by la9052 View Post
    California
    Our son is due to be discharged from the AF on Tuesday, Aug 2. He was given notice on Monday, so we're suffering a bit of whiplash. Seems like his unit really wants him gone.

    He's had a pretty good service record for the past 4 yrs. They tried to get him out last Dec. with a court martial for breaking a plane part and not repairing a plane properly. We spent money on an attorney and he was left with a CM on his record, but kept in the service. The repair he was accused of messing up turned out to be intact when the plane arrived post-CM and his crew saw it. Strike 1. When on leave in CA, he got accused of a DUI. No arrest, case isn't settled, but his unit and new cmdr said you're out. Looking for information on his rights, what his future looks like, what benefits he may be qualified for, and how much of a long shot will an upgrade be? He has hearing impairment and pretty heavy depression right now.
    You stated your son was tried and convicted at a court martial. You apparently paid for out side counsel versus using free services provided by the military. You dont state what charges your son faced at the court martial. However, you state that the plane arrived post CM and a repair allegedly made by your son was found to be in tact. This suggest that the charge may have been dereliction of duty. I find it hard to believe that evidence showing your son's innocense would essentially fly in after the court martial. Assuming this is true, and a defense that could have been brought at trial was not, your son might be able to ask for a new trial based on newly discovered evidence - a real long shot. The base defense counsel could answer that question. Although unlikely, there may also be grounds of ineffective assitance of counsel.

    Because your son was tried, convicted, but not discharged at trial, the command authority chose to adminstratively separate him. An administrative separation, which for enlisted personnel can be either a Dishonorable discharge or a Bad Conduct Discharge, is far worse that an adminstrative discharge which can be either Honorable, General under Honorable Conditions, or Under Other Than Honorable Conditions, the lowest form on the adminstrative side.

    You dont state whether your son was entitled to an adminstrative discharge or not. NCOs and those with 6 years or more can elect to have the case brought before an adminstrative discharge board. However, even if he were not board entitled, he certainly had the opportunity to submit favorable statements in his own behalf.

    If your son is discharged, he could have his case reviewed at the Board for Miltary Corrections. Discharges not not automatically upgraded, and there needs to be a showing that your son had been unfarily prejudiced by inaccurate information in the record below.

    Your son apparently has some type of disability related to hearing which may or may not be service connected. If it is service connected, there would need to be an intial Line of Duty Determination. However, the VA may independently review medical records for benefits depending on the type of service discharge.

    VT,

    Brad
    Last edited by Brad Volk; 08-05-2011 at 02:21 PM.
  8. #8
    Badam Dice is offline Member
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    I can give my dog whatever he wants, but he still can't drive.

    Quote Originally Posted by ERAUPIKE View Post
    I fail to see where I was incorrect the first time. You never addressed the Army regulation I posted that showed you were completely wrong in another post. Would you like to continue that trend here?



    CFR 38 and various other VA policies.



    That isn\'t what I said. I said his would be impossible. The policy of the AFDRB is that a discharge can only be upgraded if the discharge was given unjustly or in error. This discharge does not appear to be either, making an upgrade impossible.

    Do you have some information you would like to add or a citation that will back up any of your claims, ever. You do realize that demanding someone cite a regulation mandates that you now need to do the same. I will anxiously await your reply.
    Why not bring it up in that thread?
    Somebody else answered that you were wrong about your previous cite of army regulations. Maybe you failed to see their point also. I did not want to correct it for a second time.

    CFR 38 and various other VA policies. How about YOU cite some of those various VA policies your talking about. Or should we pull them from a hat. One more time CFR 38 has nothing to do with RE codes, and RE codes have nothing to do with benefits. For my cite you can read CFR 38. And for my cite about benefits you can look up various other VA policies.

    The AFDRB dose not upgrade for unjust issues, it upgrades for impropriety and inequity.

    The AFBCMR upgrades on the basis of unjust actions.

    One more thing. How would you know that him getting an upgrade is impossible, are you the AFDRB? The DRB is a much better judge of what gets upgraded and what dose not.

    Do I really need to cite with regulations that a GUH is better than an OTH, just trust me it is.
    Last edited by Badam Dice; 08-07-2011 at 01:42 PM. Reason: One more thing. X2
  9. #9
    ERAUPIKE is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badam Dice View Post
    Why not bring it up in that thread?
    Somebody else answered that you were wrong about your previous cite of army regulations.
    Did that post come from imagination land?


    impropriety and inequity=unjust

    If CFR 38 has nothing to do with RE codes, you are wrong it dose[sic], then how would citing it make you right? how me a VA policy that clearly states RE codes have nothing to do with the award of benefits. Furthermore, I clearly stated,
    His benefits will depend on how he is separated and the RE code he receives.
    If you re-read my statement I clearly state that his benefits are not solely dependent on his RE code, but it is one factor that is considered by the VA.

    The exact wording for the purpose of the AFDRB is, \\\"The Air Force Discharge Review Board (AFDRB), acting on behalf of the Secretary of the Air Force, reviews applicant\\\'s administrative discharges based on standards of equity, propriety and/or to change the reason for discharge.\\\"

    While you are feeling so high and mighty hy don\\\'t you explain the legal difference with cited references for the difference between an unjust issue, unjust action, inequity and impropriety.

    I stated that
    The policy of the AFDRB is that a discharge can only be upgraded if the discharge was given unjustly or in error. This discharge does not appear to be either, making an upgrade impossible.
    Is there some reason that I should doubt the policies of the AFDRB?

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