Harrassment

[cgmom]

What is the name of your state? NJ

What is one to do when there is harassment in a military office. It is not sexual, but it is out right harassment. My daughters supervisor who is female is making my daughter's life absolutely miserable and the chain of command tells her that because she is a mere E3 that she has no rights.

She is a very hard worker and always has been. Before the military she managed a chain restaurant, so she knows hard work. Do to a lapse in judgment she joined the military.

Her supervisor demeans her, she gives impossible tasks and continues to add to the work load making it manditory to have it done in impossible time. She has gone as far as giving her the duty of cleaning the head after recruits every 30 minutes! The recruits leave the heads nasty besides.

This harassment is turning my strong, vibrant daughter into a person I would never recognize. She is getting more depressed daily. The supervisor is a 21 year old that thinks her E5 status allows her to abuse my daughter. No one steps in and stops it. She was even threatened with being forced back to the barracks because she goes to work early? I dont understand that one.

I grew up military and have never seen this kind of abuse being allowed. This would never be permitted in the civilian world so why should the military allow it. What recourse would someone have other than slugging this person and getting kicked out?

[SHORTY LONG]

Originally Posted by cgmom

What is the name of your state? NJ

What is one to do when there is harassment in a military office. It is not sexual, but it is out right harassment. My daughters supervisor who is female is making my daughter's life absolutely miserable and the chain of command tells her that because she is a mere E3 that she has no rights.

She is a very hard worker and always has been. Before the military she managed a chain restaurant, so she knows hard work. Do to a lapse in judgment she joined the military.

Her supervisor demeans her, she gives impossible tasks and continues to add to the work load making it manditory to have it done in impossible time. She has gone as far as giving her the duty of cleaning the head after recruits every 30 minutes! The recruits leave the heads nasty besides.

This harassment is turning my strong, vibrant daughter into a person I would never recognize. She is getting more depressed daily. The supervisor is a 21 year old that thinks her E5 status allows her to abuse my daughter. No one steps in and stops it. She was even threatened with being forced back to the barracks because she goes to work early? I dont understand that one.

I grew up military and have never seen this kind of abuse being allowed. This would never be permitted in the civilian world so why should the military allow it. What recourse would someone have other than slugging this person and getting kicked out?

Since you grew up in the Military, then you know everything is done by the numbers.
Have you given any thought that, maybe your daughter is indirectly being groomed
for something better? For her next rank brings her into the first rank[s] of a NCO.

If she can not cut the mustard, there is a procedure she can follow to file a complain.
Hopefully, Col. badapple40, or Fozzy2, or another member can further their input,
and suggestions.

[Andy104]

Hello
You stated "Her supervisor demeans her, she gives impossible tasks and continues to add to the work load making it manditory to have it done in impossible time."
This is one of the techniques i use quite often, it is called time management. It works well with young soldiers to teach them this skill.
Also you said"She has gone as far as giving her the duty of cleaning the head after recruits every 30 minutes!"
Also this is a lawful order she has to obey, maybe the NCO is trying to teach her humility, and sensitivity. And we could throw in time management in there as well. Oh, and as far as her being promoted i can assure you she will have privates cleaning the latrines=AKA ARMY slang AKA= head NAVY/MARINE salng. Never expect a soldier to do someting you have not done or would do yourself.

Sounds to me that there is more to the story than you know and was told. If there is some sort of corrective training going on it is totally within the rights of the NCO to administer it. Get with your daughter and get the rest of the story if there is any.

[cgmom]

I would like to tell you my daughter is not a 18 year old child. He has worked in Restaurant Management for 3 years before making this huge mistake of joining the military. She worked much longer hours and did much harder work. She helped bring a lagging restaurant to one of the top in the area. The supervisor in question is a 21 year old "girl" that is having marriage problems and loves to show the 24 year old E3 that she can make her jump through hoops.

It has nothing to do with cutting the mustard!! She pulls her weight and more in that office. She had taken leave a few weeks ago and ended up getting hurt and the office requested that she come back because her job was not being done properly. This 21 year old has no person skills and has no clue how to manage. She throws temper tantrums and computers across the room when she gets mad. She told my daughter that at her last assignment she had a girl below her kicked out. Whether it is true or not is not the issue. She likes to threaten. She has no management skills.

No non-recruit has ever cleaned up after the recruits on this base. It is a training base and this girl has done a first in having her do this. She was given 2 days worth of work in addition to going every 30 minutes to completely clean the heads after the recruits have used them. Originally it was my daughters job to make sure the recruits cleaned them every 30 minutes.

The work was completed but she got no breaks or lunch (which in itself is not right) while the E5 sits at her desk doing college courses all day.

The USMJ states that supervisors on up must treat their people with respect. She does not.

Also, two of the civilians in the office have put in their resignation because of what they have witnessed in this office.

Firstly, at 24 she is not a young recruit! She has done more and experienced more than most 24 year olds in the military. Second, in bootcamp 1.5 yrs ago, she was the best Yoman or first recruit that base had ever had. She was asked to train other company Yomans. So her time management skills are quite good.

You can say what you want but my daughter is not being groomed for anything. She is being harassed by an immature girl that hasn't a clue. The rest of the office is sitting back watching this or turning a blind eye to it, the ones that are there. Most of the people in the office are on vacation so the chain of command is limited.

Between my father, husband and I worked on a base years ago, but i have much experience with the military. Yes I know there are numbers but no one has the right to make the work area, especially an office, a place of discomfort or a war zone. My daughter is one strong person and a great worker. She does her job and she is not a slacker. The military has changed if this is what you believe to be ok. This girl wrote my daughter up because she came to work early everyday to get the machines in the office warmed up, coffee made and to get her work together to start her day. No warning, nothing.

It is funny, the recruits now are not permitted to be mistreated as they used to be. They have to be able to get out of their boots after 4 hrs. They are not allowed to be "beat" as much or as certain times anymore. They have to have 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep now but it is ok for a military supervisor to treat the people below her with disrespect, to belittle them, to give them a work load that she herself has never done.

One last thing, I am assuming you all are males? I hate to use the girl card but we are more emotional. Working in a hostile environment is hard enough but when you add the emotions, it is worse. We all have the right to be able to go to our jobs and just do them. Having a hostile environment does not make for good working conditions. The military should be no exception in this.

She was told that she is a nothing until she makes PO or E4. That she deserves no respect until she gets that rate. So she is striking and if she took the test today and passed, yesterday she would not be respected but today she would be??? What a crock! A test does not make you a better person, worker, manager or anything else. Anyone can test.

My daughter has no intention of ever making this her career! She will be a good little soldier and do her time. Just let her do it!

[mlane58]

The supervisor is a 21 year old that thinks her E5 status allows her to abuse my daughter.

Thats really young to be an E-5. Why hasn't your daughter used her chain of command and made complaints to higher ups?

[Andy104]

OK
When someone says Military and starts slinging E grades around i think Army automatically. I guess because it is such an Awsome branch and the Mother to all services.

What branch of the service are we talking here?

You said PO which is a petty officer, that would be navy, but you said SGT and testing which leads me to think Air Force.

How can a test decide if you are ready for the next rank?
We have board before SGM and CSM's for promotion.
How does your daughter get promoted? Is it take a test and pin the rank?

[cgmom]

Yes, they test and get promoted. Get pinned. The person doing the harassing only takes open book tests? Go figure.

Today my daughter went in after 2 days leave and was given another list to add to her work load. The work that was not done by anyone while she was on leave, is to be finished first and then she has a long page of work that is to be completed prior to 15:30 today. I understand that some things are not done while on leave and that has to be caught up but this work had a time frame and no one attempted (meaning the E5) to get it done. Instead she left it for my daughter and if it is not done in time, the E5 doesn't get reprimanded, my daughter will!!! This girl sits up nights to add to this list.

Now mind you the head cleaning every 30 minutes is part of this. Now the work given today is work my daughter usually does in between her normal work and has it completed in a scheduled manner. It is copies for the entire base. As the daily, weekly, monthly copies are required it is completed and handed out prior to the deadline. And typically a day or two prior. She also pre makes copies for the CC ahead so there is no rush to get them done when needed. She spends hours in the copy room when her work load allows to make sure the copies are always there. The E5 has decided that instead of pre-making these copies, they are to be done 150 copies at a time. This girl is changing her work schedule and has no clue herself how to manage time and is balling up the works.

As I said before, my daughter is a good worker. She completed her work in a timely manner everyday and when she was done, searched to keep busy, which wasnt often. Now, she is so busy that lunch or breaks are out of the question because she is being told she will be written up if not completed.

My daughter has her E4 test in 2 weeks and her mental state from this girl is declining daily. How is she expected to take this test with this going on?

She has requested a sit down with the chief in the office and he has told her to deal with it. Her Lt in the office is on leave so she is not an option.

This girl, E5 is going to push my daughter over the edge and she has yet told her why. The E5 had a E3 go mental under her before, maybe this is a trend? The sad part is, no one seems to care. I thought the military was a "family"?

This office is a problem!! When the civilians quit it must be.

As a parent I knew my children were never perfect. But even if I only believe 1/2 of what is going on, it is still too much! When a superior is doing this to it's employee's, making the work environment so bad, it is not right.

Now, I do have a question for some of you. When you give the people below you changes in their job or just make changes; how do you do it? Do you speak to the people below you? This girl leaves post it notes when my daughter leaves the office or sends emails. She has yet to explain anything or given a reason for her actions.

[SHORTY LONG]

Hopefully your daughter will get through the trials, and tests; and make her
next rank to NCO. Here is some information that may or may not be useful.

Grievances & Filing Complaints. UCMJ Article 138 at 10 USC §938.
http://www.objector.org/helpingout/grievances-5.html

[cgmom]

I think this whole thing is BS. She sat down with the Chief and Lt in the office today and said the supervisor had every right to do what she is doing because my daughter is a non-rate and she is a PO. How is it right! Harassment is ok in the military if you don't have things on your shoulders!! OK.

My daughters mental state is so fragile now. This girl should not be in charge of people. She will get another non rate and do the same thing!! So to fix this they are moving my daughter to another place after she tests?
How does someone get anything fixed if they are not given the chance and told to just deal with it. That they see nothing wrong.

I am a concerned parent that is watching the mental stability of my child (although grown, it never changes) deteriorate. This is so not fair to the person who just wants to do their job, do it well then go home. And do her time and get out.

She doesnt think anyone will listen to her because she is not an NCO. She maybe right. She is told this daily.

[SHORTY LONG]

Count yourself very fortunate that you are able to speak with her on a daily basis.

You said that they were going to move her: "So to fix this they are moving my daughter to another place after she tests?"

In case you overlooked what I posted earlier, here it is again.
Grievances & Filing Complaints. UCMJ Article 138 at 10 USC §938.
[url]http://www.objector.org/helpingout/grievances-5.html[/url]

[cgmom]

Thanks for the url. Yes they are temporarily moving her to another department but that is not for 2 weeks. Instead of confronting the problem, just get rid of the non-rate.

I am quite lucky. My husband was on a Sub for 9 months at a time. i know that I am lucky. But if she couldnt talk to me she would go mad from this situation. The base has just put her on anti-depressants.

I would like for someone to make me understand something. My daughter asked her Chief why she was being "picked on" in this way. She was told that the lower ranks are watched under a magnifying glass and when they screw up they are reprimanded in this way. She makes copies for the entire base. She went out of the office for 3 days because of a serious infection of her arm. Her copies didn't get done and they were low. This is why she is being reprimanded??? She was told her work was not being done. How is that right?

In the real world, which I live, lower rank or training employees are taught how to do their job. They are shown how to do it over and over again. If mistakes keep happening they are talked to by their supervisor. It is up to the supervisor to show them the way. If they continue then counseling happens and after that they are written up.

So again my daughter asked, "So if a E5 makes a mistake that is ok and not frowned upon but a E3 makes a mistake and they are harshly reprimanded?" She was told yes, rank matters. As a PO you are respected.

This supervisor has yet to show the "non-rate" the error of her ways. She, again, sends emails and post it notes on what is to be done today. She thinks just assigning work through email or post it's is the way. what ever happened to speaking to your workers?
Plain and simple she is a chicken. The SOP changes with her mood. This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard!!!

This particular E5 made a serious mistake on a urinalysis of recruits and nothing was done. She actually put some wrong numbers in places that could have been bad news for new recruits. Nothing happened to her! But that is ok because she is a E5?

I am not a dumb person and to me this makes no sense at all??? And I want clarify something, it has nothing to do with the work load. The work kept my daughter busy and sometimes out of the office. The problem is the work load changes with the wind and the expectations of this supervisor also changes.

I am glad she is being taken out of that situation! I feel bad for the next non-rate that has to deal with her. A non-rate that worked for her at another base had SERIOUS problems with her too. If that is not a red flag I dont know what is? The cycle continues.

I will stop now bothering you . It seems everyone thinks it has to do with the work and not the actual harassment. The evaluation threats and the non completion of assigned work threats and other things. The military is not what it used to be and I am not proud that our servicemen and woman have to endue such ridiculousness. The pay they receive is not worth the junk they are given.

[badapple40]

You were told that you daughter had the option of filing a Article 138, or moving up her chain of command.

You could also write your congressman.

Short of that, there is little that can be done.

[somehelp]

I would have your daughter talk to her chain of command. Also talk to a chaplain for guidance. If she feels that the chain of command is not helping then maybe go see JAG to explore other options. Other than that, not sure what else to do.

[DRTDEVL]

The part that stands out the most to me?

Your daughter used to be in charge of ensuring the recruits cleaned the latrine. Now she has to clean it.

That's SOP for someone NOT ensuring the subordinates completed their work.