Navy DEP wants out

[ImHerMom]

What is the name of your state? Nebraska

My daughter enrolled in the Navy DEP program (signed at 18), without my knowledge. Her ship date is coming up soon and she has changed her mind - I could have predicted such. When she went to MEPS, she signed and was sworn in. I have told her that she made an adult decision and now must handle this on her own...and yet I find myself trying to figure out what her options are anyway (she doesn't know that I am). Why, because knowing my daughter the way that I do, we'll get to crunch time and the recruiter will show up at my door looking for her and she will have done nothing about it on her own.

She called the recruiter when she was feeling particurly vulnerable and somewhat depressed about her life. They moved very fast and offered her a huge signing bonus (huge to an 18 year old) and managed to get the MEPS doctors to pass her with a bad knee. She had her ACL replaced a year ago and it's never been the same since, she can't even run without a brace. I personally don't know how she would make it through boot camp.

Dont' get me wrong, I am pro-military, my brother almost lost his life serving in Afghanistan and continues to serve his country to this day - as he has for almost 20 years, God bless and love him! It is just not for her, she can't commit to anything for 5 minutes let alone 5 years and is incredibly impulsive (ya think).

I don't know if there are any options for her, it seems to me that she signed a legally binding contract. I don't want this to get ugly and I want her to handle this. Does she have any legal options? She is currently in college and says she plans on continuing that path - for the next five minutes anyway What is the name of your state?

Originally Posted by ImHerMom

What is the name of your state? Nebraska

My daughter enrolled in the Navy DEP program (signed at 18), without my knowledge. Her ship date is coming up soon and she has changed her mind - I could have predicted such. When she went to MEPS, she signed and was sworn in. I have told her that she made an adult decision and now must handle this on her own...and yet I find myself trying to figure out what her options are anyway (she doesn't know that I am). Why, because knowing my daughter the way that I do, we'll get to crunch time and the recruiter will show up at my door looking for her and she will have done nothing about it on her own.

She called the recruiter when she was feeling particurly vulnerable and somewhat depressed about her life. They moved very fast and offered her a huge signing bonus (huge to an 18 year old) and managed to get the MEPS doctors to pass her with a bad knee. She had her ACL replaced a year ago and it's never been the same since, she can't even run without a brace. I personally don't know how she would make it through boot camp.

Dont' get me wrong, I am pro-military, my brother almost lost his life serving in Afghanistan and continues to serve his country to this day - as he has for almost 20 years, God bless and love him! It is just not for her, she can't commit to anything for 5 minutes let alone 5 years and is incredibly impulsive (ya think).

I don't know if there are any options for her, it seems to me that she signed a legally binding contract. I don't want this to get ugly and I want her to handle this. Does she have any legal options? She is currently in college and says she plans on continuing that path - for the next five minutes anyway What is the name of your state?

[url]http://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=313049[/url]
At this point having not shipped yet she should beable to tell them to blow. Read this thread to make sure you daughter falls under that circumstance

[questionia]

I vote for staying out of this and supporting her both while she's in the DEP and when she's at Great Lakes. That's the best thing anyone can do to make basic training easier on their sailor - or anyone going through basic. As to running - well, it's the Navy and there's not a whole lot of running - at least not as much as the Marine Corps.

If you are worried about her making and sticking to her decisions this is one she can learn more from while going through it. The first few days will be rough then the fun stuff will start and she'll enjoy basic training. She's 18 let her go.

[badapple40]

In short: she can get out. Have her send a letter to the recruiter, return receipt requested, indicating that she will NOT be reporting.

Originally Posted by questionia

I vote for staying out of this and supporting her both while she's in the DEP and when she's at Great Lakes. That's the best thing anyone can do to make basic training easier on their sailor - or anyone going through basic. As to running - well, it's the Navy and there's not a whole lot of running - at least not as much as the Marine Corps.

If you are worried about her making and sticking to her decisions this is one she can learn more from while going through it. The first few days will be rough then the fun stuff will start and she'll enjoy basic training. She's 18 let her go.

Well there you go democracy in action. The woman asked for legal advice not personal/parental advice.

If the kid is having second thoughts then she should take advantage of her opportunities while she still can. Its sound legal advice, not advice from someone who thinks they know how someone else should run there life based on a posting in an internet message board.

[ImHerMom]

thepizzaguy and badapple40 - thank you for the replies and the information (link to previous post). It was definitely helpful since aforementioned daughter has made up her mind that she does not want to go and the advice I was looking for was that of a legal nature.

I erroneously thought once you signed the papers, that was it, there was no way out and as a supporter of military service, I was also upset that even though it was an impulsive decision my daughter did not want to follow through on her commitment. However, I can only imagine the nightmare this would be if she would get to boot camp and then change her mind. I'd like to avoid some of the potential situations that I have read about on your board.

What I told her to handle on her own was trying to figure out how to get herself out of the situation she had created by being so impulsive with life decisions in the first place. Evidently she has done her homework, as she has told me some of the information that you have provided here, I just did not believe her. Again, my thinking was that it's not possible to get out of this type of commitment.

I wish there had been some thought put into the decision and that she really could have seen the military as a good choice for opportunity - but this was not something she put any thought into at all - it was simply a means of escape for her at the time.

Again, thank you, I appreciate your posts and your time.

So as much as I'd like for her to be Uncle Sam's responsibility - it looks like for now she'll remain mine.

Originally Posted by ImHerMom

thepizzaguy and badapple40 - thank you for the replies and the information (link to previous post). It was definitely helpful since aforementioned daughter has made up her mind that she does not want to go and the advice I was looking for was that of a legal nature.

I erroneously thought once you signed the papers, that was it, there was no way out and as a supporter of military service, I was also upset that even though it was an impulsive decision my daughter did not want to follow through on her commitment. However, I can only imagine the nightmare this would be if she would get to boot camp and then change her mind. I'd like to avoid some of the potential situations that I have read about on your board.

What I told her to handle on her own was trying to figure out how to get herself out of the situation she had created by being so impulsive with life decisions in the first place. Evidently she has done her homework, as she has told me some of the information that you have provided here, I just did not believe her. Again, my thinking was that it's not possible to get out of this type of commitment.

I wish there had been some thought put into the decision and that she really could have seen the military as a good choice for opportunity - but this was not something she put any thought into at all - it was simply a means of escape for her at the time.

Again, thank you, I appreciate your posts and your time.

So as much as I'd like for her to be Uncle Sam's responsibility - it looks like for now she'll remain mine.

I would just like to add that her recruiters are probably going to hand her a lot of hard core talking about how she is commited and will make her feel compelled to finish going through MEPS. It may be hard for her to resist the pressure from these professionals.

They are trained to recruit. If they can't do there jobs well they (the recruiters) will be assigned other work. Recruiter duty is "sweet" work in the military and it usually merits quicker promotion. There is a good deal of pressure on recruiters to do there jobs well.

You may have to intervene on her part if she is not "strong" enough, to resist.

I also am pro-military, but think it would be a better military if they have people that want to be there. When she does finish "growing up" she can always try again if she wants to.

Good luck

[DRTDEVL]

Take it from a *former* Recruiter...

Recruiting is NOT "sweet" work. Most of us were out there doing the job for Uncle Sam because we were ordered to, not because we wanted to. Recruiters are usually selected from a centralized scoring system, and you have no choice but to report to Recruiting Duty for 3 years.

We try hard because we do not like failure. Before I was a Recruiter, I had NEVER failed to complete a mission to or above the standards set before me... I learned the agony of defeat several times during my 3 year tour. All we could do was suck it up, and try harder the next month.

she signed when she was 18 which means she was adult. Basically she property of gov. Their is no legal way for her to get out regardless of what someone may tell you. If you don't believe that, the contact a private lawyer that's specializes in military law and he will tell you exact same thing.

[fozzy2]

Originally Posted by ylen13

she signed when she was 18 which means she was adult. Basically she property of gov. Their is no legal way for her to get out regardless of what someone may tell you. If you don't believe that, the contact a private lawyer that's specializes in military law and he will tell you exact same thing.

This is contrary to written regulation and policy. There is a very legal way for her to "get out," (actually, to never "go in" in the first place), simply inform the military that she no longer desires to enlist. The appropriate regs have been quoted on this group numerous times.

[navywife5]

Originally Posted by thepizzaguy

I would just like to add that her recruiters are probably going to hand her a lot of hard core talking about how she is commited and will make her feel compelled to finish going through MEPS. It may be hard for her to resist the pressure from these professionals.

They are trained to recruit. If they can't do there jobs well they (the recruiters) will be assigned other work. Recruiter duty is "sweet" work in the military and it usually merits quicker promotion. There is a good deal of pressure on recruiters to do there jobs well.

You may have to intervene on her part if she is not "strong" enough, to resist.

I also am pro-military, but think it would be a better military if they have people that want to be there. When she does finish "growing up" she can always try again if she wants to.

Good luck

I agree with drtdevl. As the wife of a current recruiter, recruiting is not "sweet" work. My husband works 60+ hours a week and typically 6 days a week. And as far as there being a "good deal of pressure on recruiters", how about saying an ENORMOUS amount of pressure on recruiters. There is a goal that has to be met each month. They go through this every single month that they are on recruiting. They might do good one month and then the next month comes, and they miss their goal. Now they have to make up what they fell short the next month. My husband has been doing this for 4 years and he's been at the top and he's been at the bottom. And I can assure you that it's no fun unless you're making your goal every month. And that's not easy to come by no matter how hard a person tries or how good a person is at recruiting. Talk to anyone who has been on recruiting duty and I'm sure they will tell you the same thing.

And yes, if she hasn't shipped for boot camp, then she can get out of her contract no matter what paperwork she has signed.

[questionia]

Originally Posted by thepizzaguy

Well there you go democracy in action. The woman asked for legal advice not personal/parental advice.

If the kid is having second thoughts then she should take advantage of her opportunities while she still can. Its sound legal advice, not advice from someone who thinks they know how someone else should run there life based on a posting in an internet message board.

First, when has this issue ever been one where only legal advice has been posted? So, Pizzaguy, you're an ass for even suggesting this is the case and let's face it, your posts are usually far from sterile with respect to this subject or another oldie, AWOL. There have been so many postings like this it's very easy for someone to figure out they just don't have to ship. Send a nice letter and you're done. Why not, on the other hand, consider staying? My comments were really more food for thought and were constructive.

Second, it occurs to me the soundest legal advice is to stick with the contract as signed. Not only is there really no reason to back out - other than an emotional one which can be canceled out by the equally emotional one which led to the signing, but there is good to be obtained by both parties. The 18 year old has the opportunity to learn a job or skill - I'm sure she'll be able to strike for a rate with applications outside the Navy, she'll have an opportunity to travel and meet new people, and she'll learn independence. The Navy will have the use of her services for the term of her enlistment. Where is the unsound legal foundation in any of this?

No one should just out of hand suggest to another that a contract should be broken. Many states provide only a three day window in which a contract make be reconsidered on either side before it becomes binding. Would you suggest someone go around breaking those too, or is the military a special case because you don't agree with their policies?

Finally, I'm all for letting people out of their enlistment contracts. It would be so much better if only the people who wanted to be there were there. Those that don't want to be there make it a lot tougher on everyone. But fear of the unknown and what might happen at boot camp is no reason to avoid what might be a truly enriching and fun experience.

[questionia]

And one other thing. Pizzaguy points out she can always try again at a later date. She may receive an ELS or Entry Level Discharge for voiding this contract. If she does, it may limit her ability to obtain a security clearance. The SF-86 asks applicants if they have received a discharge other than honorable - this includes, I believe, an ELS. The Navy has very few rates which don't require at least a Secret clearance and so, this would limit her choices. I'm not saying this will happen, but I offer it for thought.

[badapple40]

If she doesn't want to be in, she shouldn't be in.

Forced enlistments and the draft was extremely damaging to troop morale. Having her go in the military, when she doesn't want to be there, is no less damaging.

If she wants out, she can get out.

The rest of the advice is not legal advice. It is folks giving moral advice. And, well, take it some place else.

[samantha500]

Originally Posted by DRTDEVL

Take it from a *former* Recruiter...

Recruiting is NOT "sweet" work. Most of us were out there doing the job for Uncle Sam because we were ordered to, not because we wanted to. Recruiters are usually selected from a centralized scoring system, and you have no choice but to report to Recruiting Duty for 3 years.

We try hard because we do not like failure. Before I was a Recruiter, I had NEVER failed to complete a mission to or above the standards set before me... I learned the agony of defeat several times during my 3 year tour. All we could do was suck it up, and try harder the next month.

Hi,
If you could please help me an read my post under other crimes federal and state..post help a.s.a.p...thanks...plus if you know anyone who's profession is in law please have them take a look at it to.
Thanks you,
Samantha