Navy Fraternization ?'s...

[crazyhorse02]

What is the name of your state? CA

I am currently under investigation by my command for fraternization...we are both enlisted and only differ by one pay grade..my whole immiediate chain of command was aware of our relationship and allowed it bc we handled it in a responsible manner..but the higher ups caught wind and didnt think the same..this investigation process is getting very lengthy 1 1/2 months and they havent really done anything..is there any kind of statute to where they have a certain amount of time before they have to just drop it? Also, both of our records are flawless (i recently was just promoted to the same rank but the frocking has been held due to the "investigation"), if sent to mast what kind of punishment are we looking at? thanks in advance

[RealAmerican]

It really depends on what rank you are. If one of you was an E-5 and possibly a supervisor than fraternization absolutely has occurred. It also depends on your commands policy for dating within the command. Many ships have a strict policy for dating within the command and you can expect to lose your crow and a 45 and 45 sentence down the the road. It may be taking longer because your Chief and LPO are fighting for you. Keep your head up and continue to good things and it may all pass over.

[ElvisG]

If the both of you are E-1 to E-3 then I wouldn't worry about it. The ship is more strict than shore duty.

If the both of you are on a ship and E-4 to E-6 then expect to lose a rank and do some time in restriction. RealAmerican is right. Next time don't be so careless and don't let ANYONE know about your situation. People will rat you out in a heart beat to get cudo's points.

Remember this rule. No one on a ship is your friend regardless of who they are. If someone thinks they can get in-good with a LPO or Chief then they will talk. Same thing follows LPO/Chief for their higher ups.

[crazyhorse02]

Originally Posted by ElvisG

People will rat you out in a heart beat to get cudo's points.

Remember this rule. No one on a ship is your friend regardless of who they are. If someone thinks they can get in-good with a LPO or Chief then they will talk. Same thing follows LPO/Chief for their higher ups.

BELIEVE ME i have figured that out very quickly...I agree with both of you if the case was so cut and dry, but its not. we have been dating for over a yr and plan on marriage very soon(next june, when contract is completed), no one even knew we were dating until recently except the division chain of command who said it was ok.. the whole immiediate command was aware senior chiefs, chiefs, LT's, LPO, everyone and now the CMC is making a big stink over us dating..our work environment(shore duty) is very stress oriented and we are on a "shift" schedule so we never had the oppurtunity to even work together..but my main ? is what do they need to go ahead and charge us?? it seems like this "investigation" is just waiting for someone to screw up so they can move in. even though i am in the "wrong" i feel the way the are handling this is turning more into harassment than an investigation..everytime i go to work i have someone spying on me and threatening me with mast if i dont come forward..what should i do?


ps. sorry for being so vague but i can picture the command reading this and using it against me or something..this is the kind of paranoid state im in bc of this so called "investigation"

[ElvisG]

Do you realise how many people in the Navy fraternize on a daily basis? In-fact, I've never been in a command where it didn't happen. People just kept to themselves and even though everyone knew it it never became an issue.

They have to get some kind of evidence (whether this is a written statement or whatever) to prove their case. They just can't carry people to mast without evidence of some kind. Unfortunately this takes some time to get in order.

My only advise is to keep your mouth shut. Tell them that you have been advised to not to say anything. Do not say one word about anything related between you and her. They can not make you say anything.

The worst that will happen is that you go to mast. On shore duty, this is cakes compared to a ship.

[RealAmerican]

I understand your situation completely. ElvisG was right and you should always keep your personal life separate from your life at work. Not all sailors are bad people but there are a lot of ignorant people in the Navy, that's for sure. It sounds like you have one of those hard ass SOB Master Chiefs that make going to work hell but it also sounds like your chain of command is looking to keep you out of the fire right now. The command is most likely looking into the situation and seeing if in fact fraternization has occurred because it is a serious offense. Read up on your UCMJ rank is not the only factor in fraternization cases, as i said before the position matters as well. If you are being investigated to go to mast you should receive a DRB and then the investigating officer will meet with you and get your side. You have to realize that this is under the commands discretion on whether or not fraternization is occurring and requesting Court Martial will not help you here. I have a friend that is still on active duty as an E-5 and he is dating and living with a LT. They are not in the same command but they still keep it as hush hush as they can because they are smart enough to leave their lives at home where they belong. Just my advice, I know you think you love this girl but in my experience 90% of the females in the navy are worthless. Break it off move on and keep yourself out of the fire. Good luck.

[RealAmerican]

Originally Posted by ElvisG

My only advise is to keep your mouth shut. Tell them that you have been advised to not to say anything. Do not say one word about anything related between you and her. They can not make you say anything.

The worst that will happen is that you go to mast. On shore duty, this is cakes compared to a ship.

This on the other hand is bad advice, never take the hard ass angle, it will only get you in more trouble.

[bobjones]

I can both agree with elvis and real american. MY personal experience dealing with a special court martial is it was best for me to keep my mouth shut. I'm not sure if you meant to come across as a hard ass by your advice elvis but in my case that wasn't the case either. I continued to do my job to the best of my abilities and eventually the truth came around that the allegations against me were false. Your case however is a different situation and I don't want to give false advice on how you should go about your issues. My only suggestion is to read up as much as you can about your case and NJP. Not to make yourself a barracks lawyer but to educate yourself on all possible outcomes so you can better prepare yourself! Good luck what ever you do!

[ElvisG]

No, I didn't mean act as a hardbutt. I meant to say, the command is trying to gather information about him/her to send them to mast, why help them?

[RealAmerican]

The truth is always the best route, any leader hates to be lied to. Honor, Courage, and Commitment is the first thing that comes to my mind. I was in the Navy for six long years and I was no angel. I stayed out of trouble by simply telling my Chief and LPO the truth and letting them go to bat for me. This sounds like the best avenue for the OP. Remember we still don't know the girlfriends position or either individuals rank. The Navy's rank structure differs as E-5's are not considered NCO's and E-6's are. If he is an E-5 dating and E-6 then there would be a definite fraternization issue. The command may take a hard line approach to discourage relationships like this from forming within the ranks again.
You stated you have someone spying on you and waiting for you to mess up. Don't give them any ammo. Stay on your best behavior and keep a positive attitude. Remember that you haven't been to mast yet and every day that someone is simply watching you, you are still not going to mast. Commands often hold off frocking on individuals in your situation to measure your ability to handle bad situations. Don't worry about it, they are doing you a favor. You aren't getting paid for it yet so you can keep doing your job until they frock you without all the extra responsibility. Good luck and remember to keep your contempt inside. A negative attitude will get you no where.

[mlane58]

The OP also still retains the right under article 31 not to self incriminate and that is not admitting guilt either.