OTH upgrade to General? Possible?

[newyork1]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NY

Hi! My name is Nick, 22 years old. I finished basic training in Ft. Jackson in April, 2009. I never took a sick day, never had a problem. Passed my tests and didn't miss a single training. Sounds hunky dory eh?
From there I went on to AIT at Ft. Sam Houston in San Antonio, TX. There I sunk into a depressed state because I didn't want to be a combat medic even though I signed the contract for it. I read that the punishment for AWOL is relatively painless. So on the second day I bolted into the trees wearing civies under my ACU's. Stripped down, (left fifty bucks in my breast pocket, ugh!) and headed out the front door.
I received a Chapter 10 OTH (KFS separation code), in lieu of court martial at Ft. Knox about a month later (after I was dropped from the rolls). I regret not staying at Ft. Knox PFC and making a bid for an ELS, but alas the damage is done.

Without regret, I stand here now with this annoying Ch. 10 on my record. It would be helpful to obtain a general discharge under honorable conditions. I am not interested in any veteran's benefits, I absolutely do not consider myself a veteran of any kind. I couldn't take college money given the path I took, I just want the OTH removed in favor of something more neutral like an ELS would have been.

While I commend the U.S. Army for recognizing that people who go AWOL during training are not deserving of prison time, it would be great if they also adopted a forgiving nature and allowed an upgrade to a general discharge over time for those young knuckleheads who made a mistake.

BTW since my discharge, I've held a steady job, have had (and have always had) a clean criminal record. Not even a traffic ticket. I also plan to go back to school this spring. I would appreciate forgiveness to be bestowed upon me, I actually had a positive time during my stay in Ft. Jackson. Loved the experience, enjoyed the Army, would have definitely stayed if I was in a non combat arms job like paralegal (i signed a contract for it before being denied a security clearance for having a $3k in education debt. Thanks recruiter!)

So, there is my brief history. I think I have some information to help me make a request for an upgrade. My question is more so about the odds of actually obtaining one? I realize I will get flamed and spammed with misinformation (the same way info about AWOL is grossly misrepresented on the internet, death penalty right?). But I'm hoping a few good men step up to clear up the muck and provide enlightenment.

And finally, thanks to all the service men and women who fight daily around the world in places people wouldn't dream of vacationing, let alone going. Thanks especially to those that might not want to be there but tough it out, and don't run, don't hide, but drive on until their commitment ends and they come home. God bless you and your families, and thanks with every passion and warmth in my heart!What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

[ERAUPIKE]

Your chances of receiving an upgrade to your discharge are virtually nil. You would have to prove that the category of discharge was given to you in error or unjustly.

[newyork1]

Thank you for your response. I should have figured as much.

I guess, I'll still make the request and cross my fingers. And perhaps I should hope that this is something they would change in the future...

[cyberspook]

Originally Posted by newyork1

Thank you for your response. I should have figured as much.

I guess, I'll still make the request and cross my fingers. And perhaps I should hope that this is something they would change in the future...

While these requests are not likely to be aproved they are possible. That being said...

You have to prove that the discharge was given in error or was unjust. Very hard to prove in your case.

Now here is the real problem. If you submit a request, it will go into your permanent record and could come back to bite you in the a$$ at a later date, if you have to file another one.

So my suggestion is: If you file one, do it right!!! Don't just fill out the form, as you will surely get denied. What ever you write now can be used against you at a later date...

[BsBfrantic]

Military Law Task Force has a lot of information about discharge upgrading and upgrading review. They also have resources such as pro-bono attorneys. This is where we found my husbands that helped him when he was awol. Haven't seen that mentioned on here, figured what the heck I'll put it out there. VERY HELPFUL =)

[newyork1]

Lol, maybe thats why they have you write out so many things in the lead up to the discharge. I honestly wrote pages, damn my love of writing. Now I honestly don't remember what I wrote, but I bet to hell that it isn't stuff that would help me in an upgrade.
Thanks for all the info btw, I'll have to check out that resource.

But the whole reason why I got out is because I signed a contract for paralegal only to be denied for a few thousand dollars in school related debt. I then reluctantly signed a 2 year "healthcare specialist" contract (code word for combat medic), in the hopes that I could reenlist as a paralegal after 1 year. I went to basic and found a paralegal dude who had a felony on his record. This added to my frustrations.

Isn't this a legitimate way to claim I was "defrauded" (for lack of a better word).

[ERAUPIKE]

Originally Posted by newyork1

Lol, maybe thats why they have you write out so many things in the lead up to the discharge. I honestly wrote pages, damn my love of writing. Now I honestly don't remember what I wrote, but I bet to hell that it isn't stuff that would help me in an upgrade.
Thanks for all the info btw, I'll have to check out that resource.

But the whole reason why I got out is because I signed a contract for paralegal only to be denied for a few thousand dollars in school related debt. I then reluctantly signed a 2 year "healthcare specialist" contract (code word for combat medic), in the hopes that I could reenlist as a paralegal after 1 year. I went to basic and found a paralegal dude who had a felony on his record. This added to my frustrations.

Isn't this a legitimate way to claim I was "defrauded" (for lack of a better word).

No, you went AWOL. You made a decision to breech the contract you had signed to serve in the military. If you bring that attitude to the board or refer to your going AWOL as "getting out", you can be prepared to be laughed right out of there. There is nothing in your story that would justify an upgrade in your category of discharge. The board is not able to change your RE code either. You will be wasting time and money if you attempt to upgrade your discharge.

[newyork1]

Originally Posted by ERAUPIKE

No, you went AWOL. You made a decision to breech the contract you had signed to serve in the military. If you bring that attitude to the board or refer to your going AWOL as "getting out", you can be prepared to be laughed right out of there. There is nothing in your story that would justify an upgrade in your category of discharge. The board is not able to change your RE code either. You will be wasting time and money if you attempt to upgrade your discharge.

cant hurt to try. its a legal proceeding, of course i won't walk in with "jeans and a shirt". Thats why I asked for advice on how to best phrase my story. We're not talking about lying here, just how to edit.

[ERAUPIKE]

Originally Posted by newyork1

cant hurt to try. its a legal proceeding, of course i won't walk in with "jeans and a shirt". Thats why I asked for advice on how to best phrase my story. We're not talking about lying here, just how to edit.

Were you discharged more than three years ago? If so you have passed the time limit to file an appeal. I want to be very clear that you will not recive any type of upgrade. You will have to show that you recieved your category of discharge unjustly or in error. Leaving because you didn't get your way and then feeling bad about it later is not a viable reason to recieve an upgrade. You are going to be simply wasting your time.

[newyork1]

Not trying will be the failure. I heard you the first two times. I realize the upgrade will not be given unless your discharge was unjust or given in error. I thank you for pointing out my odds.
But I absolutely disagree that it is a waste of time. Army policy changes daily, what if they changed it a few years from now and allowed people to purge their records if they went AWOL during training? (I'm not saying they will, just for example!)
Your appeal is like your complaint. My appeal will probably not suffice, as you have pointed out. But my complaint is absolutely relevant and valid. If they don't want to address it today, they might address it tomorrow. How will they know about my gripe if I don't tell them?

edit* and no it hasn't been three years. We were instructed at Ft. Knox, after 6 months we can file an appeal. And though they are rarely given, it doesn't hurt to try. At least that's what the nice people there advised us to do.

[ERAUPIKE]

Originally Posted by newyork1

Not trying will be the failure. I heard you the first two times. I realize the upgrade will not be given unless your discharge was unjust or given in error. I thank you for pointing out my odds.
But I absolutely disagree that it is a waste of time. Army policy changes daily, what if they changed it a few years from now and allowed people to purge their records if they went AWOL during training? (I'm not saying they will, just for example!)
Your appeal is like your complaint. My appeal will probably not suffice, as you have pointed out. But my complaint is absolutely relevant and valid. If they don't want to address it today, they might address it tomorrow. How will they know about my gripe if I don't tell them?

edit* and no it hasn't been three years. We were instructed at Ft. Knox, after 6 months we can file an appeal. And though they are rarely given, it doesn't hurt to try. At least that's what the nice people there advised us to do.

The appeals board is not the complaint department. Your appeal will be denied and the associated complaints and "valid reasons" you had for going AWOL will see their way to the round file. Your appeal will absolutely be denied, there is not an iota of a chance that you will ever receive an upgrade.

[newyork1]

Anybody whose gone AWOL or is in unhappy in the Army, please do not listen to the nonsense coming from disgruntled veterans pissed that there are people who get over on their mistakes.

Yes it is wrong to go AWOL. But it is worse to commit your life to something that you don't find worth in, and that won't find worth in you.

Yes, it is likely I will never receive an upgrade. But you must absolutely appeal when you are feeling wronged. Otherwise it will not be on your record that you appealed. The act of appealing, in it of itself, is a complaint. Its legal definition is not a complaint, but if ever asked to view your history of your military career, having an appeal is proof that you felt wronged at that particular time.

There is no ill consequence to simply putting in a request. It will serve to better finish writing your history with an appeal, rather than leave it unsigned and your military history incomplete and not reflective of your gripes with the Army.

So finally, despite the wishes of our persistent friend, who wishes I would just give up, and doesn't understand that an appeal also serves as a form of closure, I will absolutely file mine. And I will proudly write that I deserved my paralegal contract and not the so-called "Healthcare specialist" contract. And when they deny me, I will take this denial to the internet and gather up some other people in similar circumstances, and then take our case to our local congressman. And we will at least try to fix what is wrong. It would be entirely un-American to not do so.

[ERAUPIKE]

Originally Posted by newyork1

Anybody whose gone AWOL or is in unhappy in the Army, please do not listen to the nonsense coming from disgruntled veterans pissed that there are people who get over on their mistakes.

Yes it is wrong to go AWOL. But it is worse to commit your life to something that you don't find worth in, and that won't find worth in you.

Yes, it is likely I will never receive an upgrade. But you must absolutely appeal when you are feeling wronged. Otherwise it will not be on your record that you appealed. The act of appealing, in it of itself, is a complaint. Its legal definition is not a complaint, but if ever asked to view your history of your military career, having an appeal is proof that you felt wronged at that particular time.

There is no ill consequence to simply putting in a request. It will serve to better finish writing your history with an appeal, rather than leave it unsigned and your military history incomplete and not reflective of your gripes with the Army.

So finally, despite the wishes of our persistent friend, who wishes I would just give up, and doesn't understand that an appeal also serves as a form of closure, I will absolutely file mine. And I will proudly write that I deserved my paralegal contract and not the so-called "Healthcare specialist" contract. And when they deny me, I will take this denial to the internet and gather up some other people in similar circumstances, and then take our case to our local congressman. And we will at least try to fix what is wrong. It would be entirely un-American to not do so.

Yawn, again you should replace probably with definitely. Good luck with your closure although it won't change anything.

[newyork1]

You definetely will not get an upgrade. And you definetely will let them know whats wrong with the system and how they can better improve it, so less people go AWOL and less resources go into prosecuting them.

[ERAUPIKE]

Originally Posted by newyork1

You definetely will not get an upgrade. And you definetely will let them know whats wrong with the system and how they can better improve it, so less people go AWOL and less resources go into prosecuting them.

The information presented in your board and the associated decision are covered under the Privacy Act. This means that the Army Board of Record Corrections can not share any information presented in your case with anyone other than you or your council. Your application will be placed in the restricted section of your service record as well. You are not going to accomplish anything but wasting some low level government workers time reading your application. You will not be required or allowed to present your case in front of the board if your application is not approved. I can absolutely state that your application will be denied. I am not sure why you think that your few weeks as a trainee entitles you to tell the members of the armed forces that have served for many years, even decades, what is wrong with their Army or why you would think they would listen to you? It may be that same sense of entitlement that got you into this mess in the first place.