Post Driving Revocation

[Wyliebuck]

If you are on a Federal Enclave such as Joint Base Lewis/McChord, does state law stand in the absence of any opposing federal law? The reason I am asking is this. There is no federal law that I am aware of that recognizes a Post commanders revocation authority specifically. In Washington state however there is state law RCW 46.55.113, that lists the reasons a law enforcement officer can tow a vehicle. The reason they are using to tow a vehicle is that your driving privileges are revoked. However, the state law says this "46.55.113(1) It is unlawful for any person to drive a motor vehicle in this state while that person is in a suspended or revoked status or when his or her privilege to drive is suspended or revoked in this or any other state. Any person who has a valid Washington driver's license is not guilty of a violation of this section." So there is no violation in the eyes of the state; because all charges against me were dismissed. So this means that the Post commander has entered into a contract with tow companies to in my view violate this RCW. In my humble opinion the state laws should also trump any local "SOP", in the absence of a federal law?

 

[Shadowbunny]

If you are on a Federal Enclave such as Joint Base Lewis/McChord, does state law stand in the absence of any opposing federal law?

Although you chose not to provide many details, I'll assume you lost your driving privileges due to a DUI. Here's a good article from Ft Sill's JAG that goes over the process. http://sill-www.army.mil/usag/jag/_docs/LAOInfoPapers/MI/Suspension%20of%20Driving%20Privileges.pdf Here's an excerpt:

IV. Restoration of Driving Privileges.
The suspension of driving privileges shall be restored if a final disposition indicates a finding of not guilty, charges are dismissed or reduced to an
offense not amounting to intoxicated driving, or where an equivalent determination is made in a nonjudicial proceeding. This rule is subject to a few exceptions (see AR 190-5, Chapter 2-9), including where the suspension was based on a refusal to take a BAC test.
V. Reinstatement of Driving Privileges.
Reinstatement of driving privileges is automatic, provided all revocations have expired, proper proof of completion of driving or substance abuse
courses has been provided, and any state reinstatement requirements have been met.

VI. For More Information and Assistance. Consult AR 190-5. Chapter 2 and CAM Regulation 190-5, Chapter 2. If you plan to exercise your rights in fighting a suspension or revocation, or if you plan on requesting restoration/reinstatement of your driving privileges, request to meet with a Legal Assistance attorney as soon
as possible upon receiving notice of the suspension or revocation.

 

[Shadowbunny]

If you are on a Federal Enclave such as Joint Base Lewis/McChord, does state law stand in the absence of any opposing federal law? The reason I am asking is this. There is no federal law that I am aware of that recognizes a Post commanders revocation authority specifically. In Washington state however there is state law RCW 46.55.113, that lists the reasons a law enforcement officer can tow a vehicle. The reason they are using to tow a vehicle is that your driving privileges are revoked. However, the state law says this "46.55.113(1) It is unlawful for any person to drive a motor vehicle in this state while that person is in a suspended or revoked status or when his or her privilege to drive is suspended or revoked in this or any other state. Any person who has a valid Washington driver's license is not guilty of a violation of this section." So there is no violation in the eyes of the state; because all charges against me were dismissed. So this means that the Post commander has entered into a contract with tow companies to in my view violate this RCW. In my humble opinion the state laws should also trump any local "SOP", in the absence of a federal law?

Wyliebuck, your additional info really didn't clear anything up. Why don't you tell us what happened.

 

[Wyliebuck]

I apologize for not giving you the best information. I will give you as much as I currently have. I am a retiree who also works now as a DA civilian on Ft Lewis. I have been on Ambien for about 8 years now, and have had very minor issues. That is until Sept. 21 2015 when I woke up in the MP station at Ft Lewis. Apparently I was arrested for "physical control" in the parking lot of my job on post. As I was being released I was handed a citation that said this is why I was arrested. I hired a local attorney for the charge. The state of Washington decline to suspend my license due to insufficient evidence in Oct 2015. I received a court notification for 5 Mar 2016, and showed up to find out that the Federal Prosecutor dismissed all charges "without prejudice"; I assume for the same reason as Washington state. So at this point I assume everything is finished and go about putting my family's life back together after this very traumatic event.
Then on Saturday 26 Mar 2016 I hopped off the freeway to get gas at the shoppette. I was flagged at the gate to pull to the side and come into the guard station. They informed me that I had not been allowed to drive on post since 21 Sept. 2015; even though all charges were dropped and I go through the gate every morning for the previous six months since the event. They told me that it did not matter that I did not know about the revocation and that they were required to tow my vehicle the 600 feet outside the base; even though my wife was there and could have driven. So I paid a $140 tow bill, and felt like I had been violated.
I started to do some research and found some things that have made me angry and bitter. I have not been able to find any federal law that gives post commanders explicit rights to violate the laws of the states they are in. That being said the local SOP that is being used is my situation lists 9 reasons that there must be a “mandatory tow’. The SOP says that I was driving while DWLS/R (Driving while license suspended/Revoked). This is a “legal term that I believe is being misinterpreted under Washington state law RCW 46.55.113(1). Under Washington state law it says this "RCW 46.55.113(1) It is unlawful for any person to drive a motor vehicle in this state while that person is in a suspended or revoked status or when his or her privilege to drive is suspended or revoked in this or any other state. Any person who has a valid Washington driver's license is not guilty of a violation of this section. The problem here is that there is no state that recognizes a post commander’s right to Suspend/Revoke a license. This is an issue covered under AR 190-5 and similar Regulations and instructions for all branches. This only applies to the individual’s right to drive on a Military installation, and is not backed up by any federal law; only regulations and instructions. My belief is that state law would trump any of these regulations and instructions.
I have taken my case to my local Provost Marshalls office, and their response was essentially; we are the federal government, and can do whatever we want. I have not found any federal law or state law that is being violated; so they can not arrest or cite with a legal violation of any kind. This SOP is being used as a “punishment” to enforce something that in and of itself has not violated ANY LAWS. I am not able to go to my doctor, or pick up prescription medications as a result of this without walking miles and miles.
Thoughts and insight are greatly appreciated, Robert

 

[SHORTY LONG]

Robert, "Ambien" is a very good medication, but as you have learned has serious side effects. Have you tried contacting Base Legal? And at the top of this
page under Sticky provides you with many resources that you may want to explore. Lastly for now, consider contacting the ACLU: https://www.aclu.org/

 

[Wyliebuck]

Shorty Long

Shorty Long, I have contacted the base leagl. What they told me was much the same as the Provost Marshall. That they are the Federal Government and they do not have to follow state law. It just seems to me that this has to be wrong. I can not believe that the Post comander could operate outside of both federal law and state law. i am very frustrated...

 

[Zigner]

Are you REALLY suggesting that the post commander doesn't have this sort of authority on his own post?

 

[Wyliebuck]

Post Commander

Zignar, what I am saying is that I can not imagine that a Post Commander can operate outside of both federal and state law. There has to be some sort of control.

 

[Zigner]

Zignar, what I am saying is that I can not imagine that a Post Commander can operate outside of both federal and state law. There has to be some sort of control.

Again, are you REALLY suggesting that a POST COMMANDER can't tell you that you can't drive on his post and that he's going to have your car towed?

 

[Wyliebuck]

Post CC

Zigner, I understand that a post commander has much authority. However he is not a king that does not have to follow rules. Especially when he is entering into contractual agreements with locally licensed and regulated companies. I would have taken the tow company to court, however I just did not have the money to file within the time constraints.

 

[Zigner]

Zigner, I understand that a post commander has much authority. However he is not a king that does not have to follow rules. Especially when he is entering into contractual agreements with locally licensed and regulated companies. I would have taken the tow company to court, however I just did not have the money to file within the time constraints.

Yet you think you have the time and money to fight the US Government?

You need to lick your wounds and move on.

 

[Wyliebuck]

Post CC

So I guess yes; I am suggesting that the post commander does not have this authority. Even he has to operate within the law. And I do not believe that these policies are doing that. I believe that everyone involved feels like he has the power to do what he likes. I do not feel like this is accurate

 

[Zigner]

So I guess yes; I am suggesting that the post commander does not have this authority. Even he has to operate within the law. And I do not believe that these policies are doing that. I believe that everyone involved feels like he has the power to do what he likes. I do not feel like this is accurate

You weren't in the military, were you?

 

[Wyliebuck]

Post CC

As I stated in my original post, I am a retired member. I just do not buy off on the belief that the military is above the law. That mentality is poisonous.

 

[Zigner]

As I stated in my original post, I am a retired member.

That's not what you said. You merely said you are a retiree.

I just do not buy off on the belief that the military is above the law.

You do not understand that the post commander has VERY wide latitude in establishing "law" on his (or her) post.