Is punishment to severe, and unjust

[debosdraws]

What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? Virginia
Onboard the USS Nassau I was restricted to the confinements of the ship, now the puishment that I received was Reduction in Rank, 45 days restriction, 45 days extra duty, 1/2 half months pay times 2 and a General Administrative Seperation. The UCMJ articles that I received where Art. 86 UA for 6 Hours, and Art. 91 Disobeying a lawful order. Now lets get to the first article. I was out the night before, never the less I was drinking, so I may have been bilegerent, I went to the IHOP resteraunt after the club and got into with a security officer, and he arrested me and called the actual police and they charged and booked me for public intoxication, this causing me to be UA for six hours the next day. The next charge came when a second class petty officer told me to remove my hands from my pockets, "I asked her if this was all she stopped me for, and she replied yes" As I was removing my hands, slowly but surely, I turned around and she grabs the back of my jacket jerking me towards her. I told her to now put her hands on me, I was removing my hands but you dont have the right to touch me at all, regardless of what may be going on. So she said who do you work for and I told her "The President" she followed me throught the P-Way until we reached a BMC and he handled it from there.

Now in the past I have had alcohol problems that led up to this, I was once recommened for level 3 Drug and Alcohol Prevention Awareness, and I refused the treatment, this constituted me signing a page 13 saying that if I was to get into another alcohol related inciddent I can be processed for early seperation. Well, as you already know, I did. Now I was facing this, all these things linger over my head, I received my punishment and immediately after the Mast I appealed this, not just the seperation but the punishment also. I beleive that now I do have a problem, Im asking for help now. The question is, do you beleive that it was too much punishment, or was it to severe and can you help me out on my appeal.

[misledyouth]

45 days restriction, 45 days extra duty, 1/2 half months pay times 2 and some sort of discharge are prety much the standard in punisments once you have pissed someone off enough to go through the paperwork. Im not sure cause i haven't had any trouble involving alcohol/drugs or getting in arguments with officers, but I was awol for 233 days and that was my punishment. Not really much you can do about it either. I mean I'm sure you could hire a civilian lawyer for some serious cash and try to fight it but the odds are hes not going to be able to do anything I bet. You might be better off to just take what they give you and get out with that. One more thing, if you decide to appeal you are going to be in a out of training status doing ****ty details for a LOONNNG time. And if you pissed someone off in your chain of command it could be even longer.

[debosdraws]

Well I was just directed to go and talk to the chaplain. Normally within any case the captain will restrict you, he will take rank, and he will take money. But usually if he kicks you out he will not do all of that. Every senior person that I know onboard this ship says that in there whole Navy career they have never seen this happen like this. I will retain a civilian lawyer, and also be directed by a JAG. The only thing that I want opionates, I want to stay in, let me finish my time up, which I get out in July of this year. I want to leave with my benefits, I have never ever been in trouble. Right now a lot of people are talking to me and advising me on what to do. Its not like I wasnt a stellar performer, Im really a good person, but all I ask them to do is help me a give me one more chance

[Jillian483]

Originally Posted by debosdraws

Well I was just directed to go and talk to the chaplain. Normally within any case the captain will restrict you, he will take rank, and he will take money. But usually if he kicks you out he will not do all of that. Every senior person that I know onboard this ship says that in there whole Navy career they have never seen this happen like this. I will retain a civilian lawyer, and also be directed by a JAG. The only thing that I want opionates, I want to stay in, let me finish my time up, which I get out in July of this year. I want to leave with my benefits, I have never ever been in trouble. Right now a lot of people are talking to me and advising me on what to do. Its not like I wasnt a stellar performer, Im really a good person, but all I ask them to do is help me a give me one more chance

Yeah you can go and talk to the chaplain but he won't help you do anything but find god. (good luck with that) Well everyone elso has been lting to you. I have seen a full bird get demoted to a SSgt Yes that is and officer to an enlisted (this is the lowest that an officer can be demoted.) He had a lot of his money taken and was confined to base. Now don't forget that a SSgt can be demoted all the way down to an E-1. Needless to say, once they were done with him they let him leave with a general discharge. Why you ask. Well because the idiot was stupid enough to screw a generals daughter that was underage. Well this general who will remain nameless wanted to keep his duaghter out of the situation so he hounded this guy and found everything wrong with him that he could and made sure that the 21 years that the bird spent in the military had now gone to waist. So look on the bright side. At least you are not him. I think that you got a just punnishment. It is normal for what you did.

[debosdraws]

Now we are getting ahead of ourselves, we are talking Army and Navy. That in the Navy no one but congress can bust down anyone that went through a selection board to advance in rank. Meaning E7 and above cant be busted down by a Commanding Officer or higher. Now my seperation was General Discharge (under honorable condtions) I dont want that, I beleive fair is fair and if a guy can go AWOL for 66 days and return with just restriction, reduction in rank, and half months pay time two then I want the same treatment.

[Jillian483]

Originally Posted by debosdraws

Now we are getting ahead of ourselves, we are talking Army and Navy. That in the Navy no one but congress can bust down anyone that went through a selection board to advance in rank. Meaning E7 and above cant be busted down by a Commanding Officer or higher. Now my seperation was General Discharge (under honorable condtions) I dont want that, I beleive fair is fair and if a guy can go AWOL for 66 days and return with just restriction, reduction in rank, and half months pay time two then I want the same treatment.

In the air force you can, it is hard to do but if you have a 3 star general against you it doesn't help. Furthermore... you should be feeling lucky. A gen under hon is not all that bad. It basically means that you were a good troop you just made some stupid mistakes and they find no reason to ruin the rest of your live about it.

[debosdraws]

But do you understand that now Im leaving without my benefits that I worked oh so hard for. I guess you are right, but its too late now, I have already appealed it. You know an appeal is only to bring something good to something bad, I mean the worse has already happened, you fall but you always get back up. I mean its not like the military was paying a million dollars

[Jillian483]

Originally Posted by debosdraws

But do you understand that now Im leaving without my benefits that I worked oh so hard for. I guess you are right, but its too late now, I have already appealed it. You know an appeal is only to bring something good to something bad, I mean the worse has already happened, you fall but you always get back up. I mean its not like the military was paying a million dollars

Actually if you appeal it (I think) they have the option to bring you up for a court martial. I know that if you appeal an art 15 they can do this. When you go in front of a court martial your punnishment can go up and they can take away the general.

[badapple40]

Jillian: you are full of it. You cannot demote an officer (you can retire him/her at a lower grade), but the nature of a commission is such that no general, admiral, or other person can take it away and make someone enlisted (it is a position nominated by the president and confirmed by the senate). I'm not going to get into the legalities of it, but suffice to say, there is no way you saw a colonel get "demoted" to a staff sergeant. Nice try.

[chrisdizz22]

I think the first thing that you should have done when the officer grabed you is, called the MP;s she difinatly didnt have any right to lay hands on you. especially just because you had your hands in your pockets. I dont know what you can do about the AWOL thing. Did you cotact anyone in your chain of command to let them know where you were. or could you have possibly contacted anyone. I know now adays the military is really craking down on alcohol related offiences.

[Shay-Pari'e]

BA is correct, you cannot demote a officer to inlisted.

OK, carry on.

[chrisdizz22]

Originally Posted by Jillian483

Yeah you can go and talk to the chaplain but he won't help you do anything but find god. (good luck with that) Well everyone elso has been lting to you. I have seen a full bird get demoted to a SSgt Yes that is and officer to an enlisted (this is the lowest that an officer can be demoted.) He had a lot of his money taken and was confined to base. Now don't forget that a SSgt can be demoted all the way down to an E-1. Needless to say, once they were done with him they let him leave with a general discharge. Why you ask. Well because the idiot was stupid enough to screw a generals daughter that was underage. Well this general who will remain nameless wanted to keep his duaghter out of the situation so he hounded this guy and found everything wrong with him that he could and made sure that the 21 years that the bird spent in the military had now gone to waist. So look on the bright side. At least you are not him. I think that you got a just punnishment. It is normal for what you did.

O-6 to E-6 i dont think so. it takes more then a three star. not even a
military court-martial is not empowered to reduce an officer's rank so the process must be conducted outside of the court-martial process by a review board. and this O-6 would have a right to defend himself. and usually generals are a bit on the old side to have underage daughters.

[Shay-Pari'e]

Originally Posted by misledyouth

45 days restriction, 45 days extra duty, 1/2 half months pay times 2 and some sort of discharge are prety much the standard in punisments once you have pissed someone off enough to go through the paperwork. Im not sure cause i haven't had any trouble involving alcohol/drugs or getting in arguments with officers, but I was awol for 233 days and that was my punishment. Not really much you can do about it either. I mean I'm sure you could hire a civilian lawyer for some serious cash and try to fight it but the odds are hes not going to be able to do anything I bet. You might be better off to just take what they give you and get out with that. One more thing, if you decide to appeal you are going to be in a out of training status doing ****ty details for a LOONNNG time. And if you pissed someone off in your chain of command it could be even longer.

Look Awol Idiot, When you are a JAG officer, come on back. You can't give this guy legal advice on his problem, You are a awol soldier.

Grow up, and try again. Bring the UCMJ Regs with you.

[debosdraws]

Originally Posted by Jillian483

Actually if you appeal it (I think) they have the option to bring you up for a court martial. I know that if you appeal an art 15 they can do this. When you go in front of a court martial your punnishment can go up and they can take away the general.

Well from what legal is telling me, they are saying that unless I request a court martial then an appeal is the next best thing. I mean think about it, I have already been maxed out, I got the max punishment you can get for a offense like this, I dont know how they do it in any other branch but here it is way different

[badapple40]

What does legal tell you about the possibility or wisdom of demanding trial by court martial?