Question about AWOL/Desertion? Ask Me

[Karnifex]

I figured I'd post this since I saw quite a few other threads on this subject. I am a subject matter expert on how this process works and I can answer pretty much every question anyone has. That was my job. I processed ALL US Army Deserter Packets from 03 to 06, so I know the system well. I will say that I'm not here to help anyone attempt to cheat the system, or get over, or any other shady business, but I can give you advice on how to proceed from your situation.

Please don't be that mom that left her 3 kids with her friend to go to Walmart and run a red light only to be pulled over by the cops and get arrested. Desertion is a No Bond Felony and Law Enforcement has no choice but to jail you for up to 30 days until AWOL Apprehension comes to transport you away.

Ask away.

[objetora]

Some things have changed since '06 - for example, the USADIP no longer gives out DFR info - so although you obviously have a lot of important info to give (and your posts are great), it still can be helpful to get up-to-date info from the GI Rights Hotline.

[Karnifex]

Some things have changed since '06 - for example, the USADIP no longer gives out DFR info

Interesting. I would guess the Chief of USADIP retired and was replaced. I know for certain they give that info out if you are calling from your unit (as the Commander for example).

[objetora]

What I meant was that you can't get your own DFR status, although an MP, someone from your unit, etc. can (or you can, if they don't realize that it's you!).

[Karnifex]

Originally Posted by objetora

What I meant was that you can't get your own DFR status, although an MP, someone from your unit, etc. can (or you can, if they don't realize that it's you!).

I think at some point in the past this was tried and the old Chief quickly realized that this was unenforceable. I mean I took 30 calls a day and I can honestly say that I never verified who anyone was. You can't. Which is why they said it doesn't matter. I guess history is repeating itself. Funny.

I can't imagine someone calling and saying, "Hi, I'm LTC so and so and I'd like to check on the DFR status of one of my soldiers."

"Show me your CAC card!"

[m31508leah4ever]

Originally Posted by Karnifex

I figured I'd post this since I saw quite a few other threads on this subject. I am a subject matter expert on how this process works and I can answer pretty much every question anyone has. That was my job. I processed ALL US Army Deserter Packets from 03 to 06, so I know the system well. I will say that I'm not here to help anyone attempt to cheat the system, or get over, or any other shady business, but I can give you advice on how to proceed from your situation.

Please don't be that mom that left her 3 kids with her friend to go to Walmart and run a red light only to be pulled over by the cops and get arrested. Desertion is a No Bond Felony and Law Enforcement has no choice but to jail you for up to 30 days until AWOL Apprehension comes to transport you away.

Ask away.

Hello, I believe you can help me with a question...
My brother went awol/desert (not sure which one he falls under). anyways he did complete BCT at FT.Jackson right before he got trained for his job I guess its called AIT? he left and never returned. He has been gon for 1 year and 9 months and after hiding so long and missing out on his life he decided to turn him self in at our county jail 3 days ago to get it put behind him for his childern's sake. Apparently the MP's from Ft.Knox is on their way to get him, we live in Ohio and my question is...How much time could he serve in military prison? and is he considered awol or a deserter and does it matter that he didnt have much time invested in the army? I knew he wouldnt adapt to that kind of life and he has two small boys that need and love him and his wife is due to have their baby in 2wks and Im wondering if he would be out processed by then? please give me some kind of info, Im going crazy here! what is likely to happen?
Thanks!!!

[objetora]

Did your brother leave before AIT or at least before graduating from AIT? I think that's what you're saying and if so, he will very likely be discharged quickly at Ft. Knox, possibly in under a week. It could also depend on where he was doing AIT or supposed to do AIT.

The standard discharge in your brother's situation is called "Chapter 10: Discharge in lieu of Court-Martial", which means that they could court-martial him for the AWOL, but they won't because it's not in the interest of the Army to go to the trouble, especially since so many go AWOL. The standard "characterization of service" is "Under Other than Honorable Conditions" (OTH for short). This is NOT the same as dishonorable, though it's certainly not honorable, either. Some people have employment problems with an OTH, many do not. Those most likely to have employment problems are people wanting to go into law enforcement.

[ERAUPIKE]

Originally Posted by objetora

Those most likely to have employment problems are people wanting to go into law enforcement.

Those who would also like any type of job that involves trust will find that they are very rarely considered. In other words, your brother will have no problem becoming a successful fry cook, but he will find exponentially more resistance from the more professional world. Nobody can tell the future, not even GI Rights counselors.

[m31508leah4ever]

Originally Posted by objetora

Did your brother leave before AIT or at least before graduating from AIT? I think that's what you're saying and if so, he will very likely be discharged quickly at Ft. Knox, possibly in under a week. It could also depend on where he was doing AIT or supposed to do AIT.

The standard discharge in your brother's situation is called "Chapter 10: Discharge in lieu of Court-Martial", which means that they could court-martial him for the AWOL, but they won't because it's not in the interest of the Army to go to the trouble, especially since so many go AWOL. The standard "characterization of service" is "Under Other than Honorable Conditions" (OTH for short). This is NOT the same as dishonorable, though it's certainly not honorable, either. Some people have employment problems with an OTH, many do not. Those most likely to have employment problems are people wanting to go into law enforcement.

Hello again! Thanks for the info I really appreciate it! My brother did not finish AIT he only showed up to AIT for one week then he left.

[kill1775]

karnifex, does the paperwork for haveing your pay cut and haveing the warrant issued go hand in hand? I've been UA 2 months and am still being paid, does this likly mean they screwed up paperwork and i don't have a warrent issued either or are those two things seperate?

<-- UA usmc 2 months

[Karnifex]

Originally Posted by kill1775

karnifex, does the paperwork for haveing your pay cut and haveing the warrant issued go hand in hand?

No. The Deserter Information Points do not deal with any pay issues. That is handled by the unit.

[beengone]

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What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? tx back in 2007 i was an iet that went awol from Fort benning due to trainee abuse and i am still unable to pull a DD 214, i was discharged from the state of texas national guard bureau with a Desertion Coded NGB 22 that was mailed to my HOR, sep authority says DFR something something, reenlistment eligibilty is re3 and type of discharge is uncharacterized, i never had a warrant, had anyone call, come looking etc etc, i had a recruiter look me and they say i am completely out because they checked on me in the inquiry file whatever that means. I was never formally discharged and have checked national archives and they have nothing on me except the contract i signed at meps, no article 15s on record even though i recieved a field grade from my Battalion CO, how is this even possible? How would i get a 214 because there is supposed to be one and there is not. IETS dont get this kind of discharge to my knowledge because i never finished basic training. Obviously this a mistake but it does not haunt me in anyway what so ever. Its never even come up in my background once. Ive told emplyers about it and they did their background checks and absolutely nothing came up ever. Ive even renewed my State Security license as a level 2 security guard aka Rent a cop, and still it never came up. so thats my question what now?

[Metallkopf86]

I am (was) a 11b. I had medical problems, I tried all the legal ways out and got laughed at. Was told to suck it up and keep on doing what I signed up for. I was threatened if to not go to my bone scan or else I would be recycled until healed up. yada yada. I was graduated basic/ait and was sent on leave. Then went to my unit. After not even a week of being in my unit, my stress fractures began to act up, after that week I could hardly even walk. Funny thing is I was told to get treated and seek help, I didnt want to because the negative actions that were taken against me in Basic for getting one. In the end I went and got a profile. I was told to take it easy....and so I did. Right away the guy who told me to get one was giving me **** calling me a broke d**k etc. Nothing improved while on profile. I got a bone scan finally, what I should have done in basic. And it showed severe stress fractures all up my legs. Well I spent almost 6 months in my unit, didn't get better in my time being on profile. I was trapped and had been. The harassment became to much to handle at times. But I dealt with it, I had a few good buddies there. Well I went on leave and had all intention of coming back but missed my flight date. I wont get into detail, but another guy did the same as me. I was being told I would be reduced to an E-1, and he was getting special treatment, they told him it was alright and to work on getting a ticket back to the base. I knew this cause I spoke with him over the phone. Well at that point after the bullsh*t became to much to handle I said I wasnt coming back, the crap they have been doing has been going on to long and has to end, and so I was ending it.

So time in service 3 months basic/ait maybe a little more, from Jan 03 to Jun 06 when I left for leave. About 6 months in my unit. I was NONCONUS, gone for 5 months and finally told about how to clear this up. I set for Ft. Sill and was never DFR'd, they sent me on a plane to my unit, I decided to deal with it there. I was told my unit had deployed just a month before that. Never did get orders to deploy.....or to my knowledge. It was just rumored. Well the rear d acting first sergeant was being a dick, one min I was told I would be chaptered out and then moments later they wanted to deploy me. I told them I was in no condition to deploy etc etc. And once again they did not care. I never checked in once arriving at my unit. It was the weekend, I was given a room by a specialist to stay till monday, that was when this chat took place. I never signed papers etc.....So not sure if this would count as missing a movement. But the acting First Sergeant said, I am gonna deploy you, when your ready let me know. He then said if I start the paper work and you back out and run I will hunt you down, so if your planning on going AWOL again, leave now, I will DFR you and dont ever show your face here again. I chose the AWOL.....again. So I have been gone for roughly 8 or 9 months, not really sure. But not sure what will happen now, if this changes things for me.

I tried to serve my country, it wasnt working for me physically. I cant argue with the body and tried the legal way, but man did the army lay a load of s**t on me with this one. I accepted it and want to move on. I am aware I will have money to pay back. I am unsure if brig time will be given, if so how long. Like said, I was in the army about a year, I wasnt deployed, had no orders, went to Ft. Sill, wasnt DFR'd and sent back. I want to try again soon, but how can I find out IF the DFR has happened, and what can I expect the second time. I think its been made clear I want out though I have no say. Please help, I know nothing of military law. I have no criminal record what so ever, I just made a mistake, I shouldnt have joined knowing how badly I take to physical labor I know there are a couple people here who are going around giving people a hard time, if your just gonna try to spread fear, dont bother posting. Thanks in advance for the help. I just want to turn myself in but know what to expect this time around, and if there is a possibility that I have slipped through the cracks and my DFR wont ever happen.....

(Been up for hours, sorry if I wander or type-slur in this long message)

[objetora]

The DIP stopped giving out DFR info directly to soldiers some time ago. There are a number of ways around this that are listed starting on page 3 of the PDF document, "AWOL from the Army":

[url]http://nlgmltf.org/onWatch/Onwatch_xx-3_Jan_Feb_2009.pdf[/url]

I have known some AWOL apprehension units (phone numbers listed in document mentioned above) to give DFR info to concerned family members.

In any case, when you turn yourself in to Sill or Knox, it would be very important to bring a statement - like the one you wrote in your post but cleaned up (obviously) - with you and with as much documentation as possible about your physical problems, as well as the harassment. If you're still having the physical problems, bringing a civilian doctor's diagnosis with you could help.

Regarding being charged with missing movement, the UCMJ says that you had to know of the prospective movement and that you missed it by design or neglect:

11. Article 87--Missing movement
a. Text of statute.
Any person subject to this chapter who through neglect or design misses the movement of a ship, aircraft, or unit with which he is required in the course of duty to move shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.
b. Elements.
(1) That the accused was required in the course of duty to move with a ship, aircraft or unit;
(2) That the accused knew of the prospective movement of the ship, aircraft or unit;
(3) That the accused missed the movement of the ship, aircraft or unit; and
(4 ) That the accused missed the movement through design or neglect.

So your defense is that you didn't know of the prospective movement and that your physical condition should have made you non-deployable. That's what your statement and documentation are about. If they do charge you with missing movement, getting a lawyer with military experience would be a good idea.

[ERAUPIKE]

Originally Posted by objetora

The DIP stopped giving out DFR info directly to soldiers some time ago. There are a number of ways around this that are listed starting on page 3 of the PDF document, "AWOL from the Army":

[url]http://nlgmltf.org/onWatch/Onwatch_xx-3_Jan_Feb_2009.pdf[/url]

I have known some AWOL apprehension units (phone numbers listed in document mentioned above) to give DFR info to concerned family members.

In any case, when you turn yourself in to Sill or Knox, it would be very important to bring a statement - like the one you wrote in your post but cleaned up (obviously) - with you and with as much documentation as possible about your physical problems, as well as the harassment. If you're still having the physical problems, bringing a civilian doctor's diagnosis with you could help.

Regarding being charged with missing movement, the UCMJ says that you had to know of the prospective movement and that you missed it by design or neglect:

11. Article 87--Missing movement
a. Text of statute.
Any person subject to this chapter who through neglect or design misses the movement of a ship, aircraft, or unit with which he is required in the course of duty to move shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.
b. Elements.
(1) That the accused was required in the course of duty to move with a ship, aircraft or unit;
(2) That the accused knew of the prospective movement of the ship, aircraft or unit;
(3) That the accused missed the movement of the ship, aircraft or unit; and
(4 ) That the accused missed the movement through design or neglect.

So your defense is that you didn't know of the prospective movement and that your physical condition should have made you non-deployable. That's what your statement and documentation are about. If they do charge you with missing movement, getting a lawyer with military experience would be a good idea.

Getting a lawyer is a waste of money unless you are actually facing a court martial. Bringing a written statement as to why you committed a crime does not make you innocent of the crime. It only indicates that you knew you were committing a crime and lists your personal reasons why you committed that particular crime. Those reasons will have no bearing on your discharge. Your story is far from the saddest I have heard so far.

No amount of information will ever make this situation disappear, you need to return to take care of this problem.