ROTC Disenrollment Question

[vt1032]

I recieved a notice yesterday that I was being disenrolled from ROTC based on AR145-1, specifically:

Failure to maintain a minimum semester or quarter cumulative academic GPA of 2.0 on a 4.0 scale or higher if required by the school and at least a 3.0 on a 4.0 scale or equivalent semester or quarter and cumulative average in all ROTC courses.

Inaptitude for military service as demonstrated by lack of general adaptability, skill, hardiness, ability to learn, or leadership abilities.

The GPA thing is highly questionable as I have better than 2.0 gpa cumulatively and expect I will this semester as well. The 3.0 in the ROTC class is where they are getting me, but that in and of itself is questionable, as a large chunk of the grade, percentage wise is not based on assignments, but essentially on opinion.

 

[Proserpina]

I recieved a notice yesterday that I was being disenrolled from ROTC based on AR145-1, specifically:

Chapter 3-43(a)(6) Failure to maintain a minimum semester or quarter cumulative academic GPA of 2.0 on a 4.0 scale or higher if required by the school and at least a 3.0 on a 4.0 scale or equivalent semester or quarter and cumulative average in all ROTC courses.

Chapter 3-43(a) (13) Inaptitude for military service as demonstrated by lack of general adaptability, skill, hardiness, ability to learn, or leadership abilities.

The GPA thing is highly questionable as I have better than 2.0 gpa cumulatively and expect I will this semester as well. The 3.0 in the ROTC class is where they are getting me, but that in and of itself is questionable. My pms's grading system is set up as such:

LDAC AAR (10)
LDR Challenge 1 (10)
LDR Challenge 2 (10)
Collaboration (15)
Staff Position (45%

I'm not sure where your confusion lies.

 

[vt1032]

I guess I'm trying to find if that is legitimate, that he can disenroll based entirely on a single category of a grade that he can arbitrarily determine, without any guidelines or criteria, and in the process, sink my entire military career and force me to repay about $80,000. I mean, he literally can just pick a number for that section, it's entirely up to him.

I was hoping there might be a jag or someone on here with some experience with this sort of thing that can tell me whether this has any merit and how to proceed at this point.

 

[Proserpina]

I guess I'm trying to find if that is legitimate, that he can disenroll based entirely on a single category of a grade that he can arbitrarily determine, without any guidelines or criteria, and in the process, sink my entire military career and force me to repay about $80,000. I mean, he literally can just pick a number for that section, it's entirely up to him.

I was hoping there might be a jag or someone on here with some experience with this sort of thing that can tell me whether this has any merit and how to proceed at this point.

Have you actually talked to HIM about it?

Talked to JAG?

 

[vt1032]

No, I haven't talked to him yet. I was hoping to get some information prior to talking to him and prevent this from going to a board in the first place.

I am not eligible for Jag representation. I was hoping someone on here would know something about the ROTC disenrollment process and could tell me whether I have a case to get this dismissed or not, and if so, how to proceed.

 

[gator1]

I recieved a notice yesterday that I was being disenrolled from ROTC based on AR145-1, specifically:

Chapter 3-43(a) (13) Inaptitude for military service as demonstrated by lack of general adaptability, skill, hardiness, ability to learn, or leadership abilities...

I guess I'm trying to find if that is legitimate, that he can disenroll based entirely on a single category of a grade that he can arbitrarily determine, without any guidelines or criteria, and in the process, sink my entire military career and force me to repay about $80,000

The bolded above is what you should be most concerned with, and would lead one to question what kind of military career you feel you will have if the ROTC cadre and commander doubt your aptitude for military service.

It is better to learn this now than to realize years down the road in a military career that you top out at a low grade level and get rif'd out before you reach retirement. It may be that this is not your calling. There are plenty of extremely successful folks in the civilian world who would never have cut it in the military for any number of reasons.

If you approach this proactively and show some spunk and discuss this with them and convince them you are willing and able to improve whatever deficiencies they feel led to this, the ROTC commander may give you an opportunity to stay and work on this. But as a practical matter, if the ROTC commander does not feel you should be enrolled, and you cannot convince him or her to reconsider, their decision will be final.

It is not likely you will have to pay back the $80,000 figure you came up with if this is a basis of your disenrollment.

 

[vt1032]

The bolded above is what you should be most concerned with, and would lead one to question what kind of military career you feel you will have if the ROTC cadre and commander doubt your aptitude for military service.

It is better to learn this now than to realize years down the road in a military career that you top out at a low grade level and get rif'd out before you reach retirement. It may be that this is not your calling. There are plenty of extremely successful folks in the civilian world who would never have cut it in the military for any number of reasons.

If you approach this proactively and show some spunk and discuss this with them and convince them you are willing and able to improve whatever deficiencies they feel led to this, the ROTC commander may give you an opportunity to stay and work on this. But as a practical matter, if the ROTC commander does not feel you should be enrolled, and you cannot convince him or her to reconsider, their decision will be final.

It is not likely you will have to pay back the $80,000 figure you came up with if this is a basis of your disenrollment.

Actually, just about all of what you said is wrong unfortunately. I have recieved positive evaluations from everyone except him, including my reviewing officer at LDAC, and other ROTC cadre. On top of that, I'm not trying to go active duty and make a career, I'm trying to be a national guard officer. I have discussed it many times with him, and he isn't open for discussion, however, the decision is not his to make. I can appear before a board to make my case and that is what I am trying to gather information for. I have already been told I will have to pay the money back.

As for an actual question, if there are any lawyers or jags on here who can answer, which takes precedence, my contract or regulation? There is a direct conflict between my contract and AR145-1 regarding grades.

 

[TheGeekess]

Actually, just about all of what you said is wrong unfortunately. I have recieved positive evaluations from everyone except him, including my reviewing officer at LDAC, and other ROTC cadre. On top of that, I'm not trying to go active duty and make a career, I'm trying to be a national guard officer. I have discussed it many times with him, and he isn't open for discussion, however, the decision is not his to make. I can appear before a board to make my case and that is what I am trying to gather information for. I have already been told I will have to pay the money back.

As for an actual question, if there are any lawyers or jags on here who can answer, which takes precedence, my contract or regulation? There is a direct conflict between my contract and AR145-1 regarding grades.

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[vt1032]

I know, I wouldn't trust what someone says on the internet as fact until it was backed up with documentation. I was hoping someone had faced a similar situation or had legal experience with one however.

Any idea on the contract question?

 

[Proserpina]

I know, I wouldn't trust what someone says on the internet as fact until it was backed up with documentation. I was hoping someone had faced a similar situation or had legal experience with one however.

Any idea on the contract question?

Yeap.

Go speak to an attorney.

 

[gator1]

Actually, just about all of what you said is wrong unfortunately. I have recieved positive evaluations from everyone except him, including my reviewing officer at LDAC, and other ROTC cadre. On top of that, I'm not trying to go active duty and make a career, I'm trying to be a national guard officer.

I have discussed it many times with him, and he isn't open for discussion, however, the decision is not his to make.

You are wrong if you believe this is a trivial matter and that the officer who recommended you be dismissed from the ROTC program won't carry a lot of weight in the final disposition of your case. Notices of dismissal are not sent frivolously without support from higher up, especially to those on ROTC scholarship.

I came up from the enlisted ranks and was comissioned through ROTC SMP program and served both active duty and reserves, and earned the bars you have yet to earn... if you ever do. There are a few realities about the military that some in your position do not learn until it is too late, and I have have seen some would be's bite the dust for reasons that could have been avoided.