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Thread: Harp Refinance, title and lien problems..

  1. #1
    voxx is offline Junior Member
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    Harp Refinance, title and lien problems..

    What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? OH

    In 2009, I got divorced and it was decreed that I keep the property and for my ex wife to do a quit claim deed. She was also to be responsible for all debt acquired in her name.

    I'm now trying to refinance with the gov't harp program, and last night I received an email stating in June, 2011 there was a judgment lien placed on the house for 9400.00, in my ex wife's name. Obviously, she didn't do the quit claim like she was court ordered to do.

    It's beginning to look like I'm gonna have to take her to court to get this signed. I'd like to know once she is removed from the title, which should of been done in 2009, can the judgment lien be removed as well since she wasn't entitled to the property? If not do I have any recourse since she is currently in contempt of not doing the quit claim, and she's also in contempt for NOT holding me harmless from her debt??
  2. #2
    tranquility is offline Senior Member
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    See your attorney. There are some odd facts here, but it seems she was the legal owner of the property with you at the time of the lien so the lien seems valid. I'm not even sure she's in contempt if you haven't refinanced her off the mortgage yet. Is there any co-debt on the property still?
  3. #3
    Zigner is offline Senior Member
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    Furthermore, if the "quit claim" was never properly recorded, then the lien would have been placed as a matter of course related to a judgment
  4. #4
    voxx is offline Junior Member
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    I should of also mentioned that she was not on the loan (because of her credit), but her name was put on the title..
  5. #5
    voxx is offline Junior Member
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    sorry it won't let me edit... She is not on the house loan...
  6. #6
    tranquility is offline Senior Member
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    Then, I'd say she is in contempt if she had a deadline for giving you a quitclaim. Also, since the judge could order her off title, he may have done so equitably. Clearly, she has liability here for the amount of the lien, but recognize she probably does not have the money to pay it. She was a legal, but not equitable, owner of the house at the time of the lien. I think the lien is still good against her and you can't demand the holder to eliminate it without a court order. I'm uncertain as to if a court, acting in equity, would demand the removal as the inequity is not with the creditor, but between you and your ex.
  7. #7
    voxx is offline Junior Member
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    In the division of property it says... "It is further ordered that Defendant (her) shall execute all necessary documents in order to transfer title of said real estate to Plaintiff (me) within 120 days of the filing of this decree." The date it was filed is May 4, 2009...

    and then regarding personal debt it says..

    "It is further ordered, adjudged and decreed that plaintiff and defendant shall pay any and all debts they have incurred in their own name, and shall hold the other party harmless from payment of the same."

    The 9400.00 is in her name only, and you are correct that she does not have 9400.00. I guess I can get the quit claim but the judgment lien will remain...and what pisses me off is she's driving a brand new car...
  8. #8
    Zigner is offline Senior Member
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    Why did you not follow up on this prior to now?
  9. #9
    latigo is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by voxx View Post
    What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? OH

    In 2009, I got divorced and it was decreed that I keep the property and for my ex wife to do a quit claim deed. She was also to be responsible for all debt acquired in her name.

    I'm now trying to refinance with the gov't harp program, and last night I received an email stating in June, 2011 there was a judgment lien placed on the house for 9400.00, in my ex wife's name. Obviously, she didn't do the quit claim like she was court ordered to do.

    It's beginning to look like I'm gonna have to take her to court to get this signed. I'd like to know once she is removed from the title, which should of been done in 2009, can the judgment lien be removed as well since she wasn't entitled to the property? If not do I have any recourse since she is currently in contempt of not doing the quit claim, and she's also in contempt for NOT holding me harmless from her debt??
    Out of curiosity, what knot head representied you in the divorce – knowing her assigned debt load - was so grossly remiss in not seeing to it that the decree expressly and presently awarded you the property as your sole and separate estate and then have a certified copy or abstract immediately recorded?!

    It is bad enough that as written she was permitted to remain a titled owner for up to four months exposing the property to her creditors. But worse because you failed to follow through to see that a proper quitclaim deed was promptly executed, delivered and recorded.

    It seems inexplicable as to why you were you so foolish as sit for over three years expecting your "loving" ex wife to voluntary comply with the court’s order.

    Also, if you expect to have the court cite her for being in contempt for failing to hold you harmless of her debts, you'd better be prepared to produce credible evidence that she had the ability to do so. And her driving a new set of wheels won’t be in the game.
    Last edited by latigo; 02-08-2013 at 10:59 PM. Reason: sloppiness
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  10. #10
    Zigner is offline Senior Member
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    I suspect that the doctrine of laches is going to come in to play if a contempt motion is brought.
  11. #11
    tranquility is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zigner View Post
    I suspect that the doctrine of laches is going to come in to play if a contempt motion is brought.
    How would the ex be harmed by the lack of prosecution before now?

    The contempt would be for failing to provide a quitclaim within the time limit set by the court. While the OP was not diligent (hah!) in demanding the quitclaim, that hardly put the ex in a worse position.
  12. #12
    voxx is offline Junior Member
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    I was naive and I have no problem admitting that. Now, had I gone to court on my own then everyone here would be saying I was a dumbass and should of got a lawyer, well I did have a lawyer because this is foreign to me. I'm not a divorce expert, and I'm not a real estate expert. I guess at this point I have to figure out how to fix the current problem. The quit claim seems to be the easiest, and that will be taken care of immediately, because for all I know she's wracking up more debt because her motto is "have fun first, pay bills later". I'm pretty good at paying my bills. I have a credit score of 782, although that is not relevant.

    1. I assumed when a judge ordered something it was to be done, and if it wasn't done there would be consequences. Apparently, this is not the case. It appears a judge can order something, the person can do whatever they want contrary to the order, and in the end the judge looks foolish, along with me, because it doesn't appear like much will be enforced. The divorce papers state she is to execute all necessary paperwork, not me. It's a simple quit claim form, which I do not need to sign. She should of had one drawn up, signed, and filed.

    2. It was in the divorce papers that she would be responsible for her debt, and I would be held harmless from that debt which is NOT the case at the moment. When the divorce papers stated it was "ordered that I retain all right, title and interest in the real estate" that it was mine and could not be touched from the consequences of her debt, because I was to be held harmless from her debt. My line of thought was any defaults on her debt would lead to garnishment of her wages. A judgment lien against the house was never a thought and it didn't become a thought until the title company told me about it.

    So, obviously I didn't follow through on the title, and in hindsight I should have. If I knew then what I know now it would of been my first priority to make sure the title was transferred asap. I do want to know how much money she has.. She's driving a new car, living in her parents 175k home / rent free, doesn't pay cable, doesn't pay utilities, doesn't pay for internet or any other cost associated with owning a home which makes her life great, because she's still having fun, doesn't care and like she said in her email to me yesterday "NONE of this is her fault".

    Rather, than make fun of my mistakes what options do I have, besides getting her to sign a quit claim?
  13. #13
    voxx is offline Junior Member
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    Zigner
    Why did you not follow up on this prior to now?
    Some of the answer would be above, however I wouldn't be following up on it now had the title company not told me they were seeing a judgment lien and requesting my ex's social security number. I didn't have to provide that the moment they told me that and the amount I knew it was her.

    In 2009/10 and maybe 11 I didn't qualify for the gov't program for underwater homeowners, because of my debt/ratio. So, trying to refinance back then didn't get too far. Well, the harp program has changed, and I do qualify for it now, and so I proceeded to refinance, and that's when this was discovered.
  14. #14
    Zigner is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by voxx View Post
    1. I assumed when a judge ordered something it was to be done, and if it wasn't done there would be consequences. Apparently, this is not the case. It appears a judge can order something, the person can do whatever they want contrary to the order, and in the end the judge looks foolish, along with me, because it doesn't appear like much will be enforced. The divorce papers state she is to execute all necessary paperwork, not me. It's a simple quit claim form, which I do not need to sign. She should of had one drawn up, signed, and filed.
    That IS the case...but how is the court supposed to know about it if it's not brought to their attention?
  15. #15
    Ohiogal is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zigner View Post
    I suspect that the doctrine of laches is going to come in to play if a contempt motion is brought.
    Laches won't fly. The courts have stated that in domestic relations cases in Ohio. Particularly for child support but the reasoning holds across the board. The big problem is the quit claim deed needs to be properly written and executed and filed. And it doesn't state who is responsible for that. If it is unclear, ambiguities go against the drafter.
    Parents should remember 3 things: Love your kids more than you hate your ex; when you have children the relationship with the other parent is until death; your children determine what type of nursing home you end up in.
    Nothing stated by me should be taken as giving you legal advice or forming an attorney/client relationship.

    Attorney-GAL in Ohio.

    I've removed the knife from my back, polished it, and will one day return it -- long after you think I have forgotten.

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