Refinancing for cash out before foreclosure

What is the name of your state?
MASS

I know this looks rather underhanded but here's my dilemma;

I am a citizen of another country and there is a good chance, not
100%, that my permanent residence will not come through due to issues
with INS backlogs. If this occurs I will need to leave the country
almost immediately without much warning.
My question is this; I currently own a house and have very good
standing with all lenders. Would it be illegal for me to take a cash
out on a refi basing this on a much higher appraisal value than I
currently owe on the house? I have many lenders constantly offering
this to me. I know the house has gained substantially in value but I
don't think I'd have enough time to sell in order to get this
appraisal value. Then if the time comes, foreclose on the mortgage and
take the cash that I refinanced, with me?
Is this legal, if so will my credit be affected adversely should I
wish to re-enter the US?
Thanks for any advice on this.

[JETX]

Originally Posted by kepatter

I currently own a house and have very good standing with all lenders. Would it be illegal for me to take a cash out on a refi basing this on a much higher appraisal value than I currently owe on the house?

If your intent is to do this and then flee the country, yes, that would be illegal.

Then if the time comes, foreclose on the mortgage and take the cash that I refinanced, with me?

Can you say 'credit fraud'??

Is this legal, if so will my credit be affected adversely should I wish to re-enter the US?

Yes.

[HomeGuru]

Originally Posted by kepatter

What is the name of your state?
MASS

I know this looks rather underhanded but here's my dilemma;

I am a citizen of another country and there is a good chance, not
100%, that my permanent residence will not come through due to issues
with INS backlogs. If this occurs I will need to leave the country
almost immediately without much warning.
My question is this; I currently own a house and have very good
standing with all lenders. Would it be illegal for me to take a cash
out on a refi basing this on a much higher appraisal value than I
currently owe on the house? I have many lenders constantly offering
this to me. I know the house has gained substantially in value but I
don't think I'd have enough time to sell in order to get this
appraisal value. Then if the time comes, foreclose on the mortgage and
take the cash that I refinanced, with me?
Is this legal, if so will my credit be affected adversely should I
wish to re-enter the US?
Thanks for any advice on this.

**A: this is hilarious. I give you credit for not being a US citizen and coming up with this scam on your own.

Why would this be considered a scam? Do not the institutions who provide the loans only lend up to what they think they will be able to get should a foreclosure occur?
If I was going to flee the country why woud I ask the question ahead of time?
I really do not mean this as a joke? I can almost certainly get the price I am looking for. It just might take longer than the amount of time I have.
If this is illegal then why is it so? If the bank can get that amount back then where is the fraud?

[JETX]

Sorry, but I doubt that any RESPONSIBLE member of this forum is going to assist you in committing fraud.
If you don't understand how your conduct is fraud, I suggest you either talk with a local attorney, do some research, or even better yet, don't.

[kingston]

Have you heard of Ameriquest it simply isn't right

An appraisal is a snapshot in time of what the value of that collateral is
and right now your property is worth what it is

If you state the property is worth more than it is actually worth and have the lender give you a loan based on false information that debt now becomes unsecured because they would not be able to recoup the loan amount because the property doesn't have enough value.

Should you find a willing appraiser I suspect they may not be around too long

If there is equity in the property and you want to take it out then do so but why not have a property management team take care of the property and rent it out or better yet have an investor buy it and take it off your hands so that way you get the cash you wanted and your credit doesn't have to suffer?

This situation can be handled much better just stop and take a look at some various options

Originally Posted by JETX

Sorry, but I doubt that any RESPONSIBLE member of this forum is going to assist you in committing fraud. If you don't understand how your conduct is fraud, I suggest you either talk with a local attorney, do some research, or even better yet, don't.

I believe jetx pretty well summed up the situation here.

Originally Posted by Fat Toney

Ok, thanks for the insult thrown there judge. But, what law is he breaking? What fraud is he commiting?

There have been no insults in any of my posts. Please re-read them.

In my never to be humble opinion, the original poster clearly outlined the moral, ethical, and legal problems with his proposed course of action.

Originally Posted by Fat Toney

Is it illegal to get the maximum value out of your home via a refinance?

Not that I know of....

Originally Posted by Fat Toney

So where are the legal issues?

I have no idea because I know absolutely nothing about Massachusetts law.

[JETX]

Originally Posted by Fat Toney

Dont you love it when somebody refuces to answer a direct question once they've painted themselves in a corner? To the original poster, again, I say go for it. Nobody is able to come up wityh any law you're breaking. Underhanded? Yes. Immoral/Unethical? Possibly. Illegal? Absolutely not. I would assume that I am now an IRresponsible member of this forum, but that is what would work best for you. I dont see the fraud, and nobody else can seem to point it out, except that it looks sneaky.

Actually, I have ignored your bleatings since I know it is going to do nothing but lead into a long, drawn out discussion since you will want to argue the nuances of the law.... but here goes:
Here is the LEGAL definition of fraud:
fraud
n. the intentional use of deceit, a trick or some dishonest means to deprive another of his/her/its money, property or a legal right. A party who has lost something due to fraud is entitled to file a lawsuit for damages against the party acting fraudulently, and the damages may include punitive damages as a punishment or public example due to the malicious nature of the fraud. Inherent in fraud is an unjust advantage over another which injures that person or entity. It includes failing to point out a known mistake in a contract or other writing (such as a deed), or not revealing a fact which he/she has a duty to communicate. Since fraud is intended to employ dishonesty to deprive another of money, property or a right, it can also be a crime for which the fraudulent person(s) can be charged, tried and convicted. Fraud, which has victimized a large segment of the public (even in individually small amounts), has become the target of consumer fraud divisions in the offices of district attorneys and attorneys general.

Also:
fraud in the inducement
n. the use of deceit or trick to cause someone to act to his/her disadvantage, such as signing an agreement or deeding away real property. The heart of this type of fraud is misleading the other party as to the facts upon which he/she will base his/her decision to act.

And finally, if the loan is backed by any federal funds, then 18 USC 1001, et seq. could apply:
(a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, whoever, in any matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative, or judicial branch of the Government of the United States, knowingly and willfully—
(1) falsifies, conceals, or covers up by any trick, scheme, or device a material fact;
(2) makes any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representation; or
(3) makes or uses any false writing or document knowing the same to contain any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or entry;
shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.

[JETX]

And of course, you are ignoring the FACT that NONE of your scenario fits the specifics of this thread!!
In this case, the OP KNOWS that he is going to bail on the property and flee the jurisdiction of any possible civil action. That pre-knowledge is FRAUD.

But don't worry... as long as you can see the pictures of hamburgers and fries on the register, you MIGHT qualify as a new hire for McDonalds!!

[BelizeBreeze]

Wow, Jet, you really cleared that up for me. I have been a mortgage broker for 9 years now.

And an authority on hookers I see
[url]http://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?p=790307#post790307[/url]

Originally Posted by kepatter

Would it be illegal for me to take a cash out on a refi basing this on a much higher appraisal value than I currently owe on the house?

I think this may be what is bothering most people in this thread. I see this kind of "creative financing" going on all the time.

Now, if a piece of property is foreclosed upon and the lender is left holding a piece of real estate that is not worth what they have loaned on it due to an inflated appraisal, then that may possibly be against the law in Massachusetts.

I do not know anything about the law in that commonwealth. In other jurisdictions, this might be "fraud in the inducement."

Just a thought....

Originally Posted by Fat Toney

Or are you the same ones that tell the cashier at the supermarket or the waiter at the restaurant or the bank teller when they've given you too much money back?

Well...yeah! My momma told me that wasn't my money, no way, no how, and I still believe her!