Who set attorney fees-attorney or lender?

[sargentcarter]

What is the name of your state? NC
Who sets the attorney fee for a foreclosure in North Carolina, the attorney or the lender? Does the attorney not get the entire amount? Why would the bank not be willing to negotiate the attorney fee if the attorney is willing to? If the attorney gets the full fee what advantage does the bank have to hold up the refinance or stop it completely in this case by refusing to allow the lowering of the fees. Trying to get an answer to this question has left me feeling like a small kitten walking amoung Pit Bulls and that I had just asked one of them to reduce his food portion for me. I get the impression none of them like the idea very much - you get the idea. A straight and understandable answer has not been forthcoming. This may sound like a situation that could easily be resolved but it is not. The lender will not budge on the issue even at the cost of the loan not being refinanced. Its as if they want the property. The only other thing I can say of relevance is that the property is worth over 3X what is still owed. Getting a foreclosure bailout was hard enough and even with all the equity I had a hard time getting it done and a firm lending limit so I ligitimately needed the fee negotiated down to make the deal work not just to save some money. In other words not being able to negotiate ruined the deal. I am confused about the attorney fee issue

[pojo2]

IF you are saying the Atty is willing to decrease his/her fee have him/her write a letter to the bank saying such.

IF you are saying no one will negotiate the fee, I do not see your point, it is not you who sets the fees.

They have no obligation to lessen fees just because it is what you need them to do to bail you out. You tunneled into the financial mess but if you read the contracts you signed I am sure it does not say "if you go into foreclosure we will negotiate our Atty and collection fees".

Heck just file BK.

[sargentcarter]

Originally Posted by pojo2

IF you are saying the Atty is willing to decrease his/her fee have him/her write a letter to the bank saying such.

IF you are saying no one will negotiate the fee, I do not see your point, it is not you who sets the fees.

They have no obligation to lessen fees just because it is what you need them to do to bail you out. You tunneled into the financial mess but if you read the contracts you signed I am sure it does not say "if you go into foreclosure we will negotiate our Atty and collection fees".

Heck just file BK.

I'm sorry. I guess I did a poor job explaining the situation.

YES I am saying the ATTORNEY WILL NEGOTIATE but the BANK SAYS NO. The attorney says that it is up to the bank, not him to decide. I did NOT say that neither side would negotiate. I would not be confused about that now would I?

Before you look down your pointy nose at me for the "financial mess" that I "tunneled into" you should keep a few things in mind.
Number One: I doubt by your attitude you ever had the nerve to start your own business and run it for 20 years and I do not mean a one horse operation with a shingle on the door, I mean a real business with employees, customers, venders, you know, real world business with real world problems.
Number Two: Just suppose for a second I was dealing with a wonderful local bank and that bank was purchased by a larger bank. Now the same things that were once acceptable no longer are and you are told to find another lender. Then you get a letter of acceleration a fews days later just to firm up the sincerity of the previous call.
Number Three: Let me put this a simply as possible. Attorney-willing to negotiate. Bank-unwilling to negotiate. Attorney- says he does not want to get in the middle with his customer and that it is their decision. Bank-reason for not wanting to negotiate-they said it would hold up the process ??
Number Four: Attorney fees were set at the full amount state law allows. This has been a simple case with no litigation so actual attorney fees are only a fraction of this at this time. The contract calls for "reasonable attorney fees". The question is simple. Why would the bank hold out for extra fees for an attorney willing to take less? Because it would hold up the process was the answer. This makes no sense. The money was on the table. The amount was set. Attorney just says yes or no and the deal is done. The only thing accomplished by holding up the deal is the bank pushing toward owning the property.

I am sorry if I sound a bit upset but I just want an answer to this question without the smart attitude.

In North Carolina who is legally responsible for setting the attorney fee?? The attorney or the lender.

NC Statute 84-6. Exacting fee for conducting foreclosures prohibited to all except licensed attorneys. It shall be unlawfull to exact, charge, or receive any attorney's fee for the foreclosure of any mortgage under powere of sale, unless the foreclosure is conducted by licensed attorney-at-law of North Carolina, and unless the full amount charged as attorney's fee is actually paid to and received and retained by such attorney, without being directly or indirectly shared with or rebated to anyone else, and it shall be unlawful for any such attorney to make any showing that he has received such a fee unless he has received the same, or to share with or rebate to any other person, firm, or corporation such fee or any part thereof received by him; but such attorney may divide such fee with another licensed attorney-at-law maintaining his own place of business and not an officer or employee of the foreclosing party, if such attorney has assisted in performing the services for which the fee is paid, or resides in a place other than that where the foreclosure proceedings are conducted, and has forwarded the case to the attorney conducting the foreclosure.

I repeat my confusion as to what motive a lender could have for wanting the full amount of the attorney fees. They are not entitled to them. The lender has confirmed that it is they that want the full amount intact, the attorney has no say in the matter, at least as far as they are concerned.

This is more than money. Its about about ethics and principle. I have found there to be no weaker position than to be in foreclosure with a lender. This gives the lender god like power over the situation and power should not be abused, but sadly the only things guiding the lender are its ethics and morals and those of its employees. People in foreclosure are like fly ash. When its over they are usually spent and ruined too tired to fight even if wronged, and as fly ash they blow away never to be heard from again. There are also those with assets and equity. If a lender is in the position of having a mortgage on the heart of the business property they know that they will get paid because if the customer doesn't pay he is ruined and loses everything. If he doesn't pay its even better for the lender because the property is worth 3.5X the amount left on the note. It is a lose-lose for the borrower and win-win for the lender if it is unscrupulous.

I am not complaining about the foreclosure. It is a natural tool for ethical lenders to use when they are in danger of losing money on a loan. For unethical lenders it is a source of income. Ethical lenders use every available option before foreclosure begins especially a customer with high equity, meaning the bank is not in a precarious position with the LTV on the loan. Unethical lenders comb their accounts, especially those acquired from the purchase of other banks, looking for profitable nuggets.

An ethical lender foreclosing for the right reasons would let their attorney negotiate so the loan could be refinanced and off their books because that is all they are supposed to wanting - right?

[sargentcarter]

I would like to appoligize for my tone in the previous post. This was not called for but POJO's post wreaked of the sarcasm that seems to permeate every aspect of the foreclosure process when a question arises. Attorney fee is almost a taboo subject. When there is an issue attorneys begin to act a bit funny. Just go ahead and pay it. Make it simple, find the extra money somewhere else. Don't question the process. Don't fight the process. All these I heard from minds like POJO. But NO ONE will answer my question. It is implied the lender has control of the fee but no one will say that directly. If indeed the lender does have this power how does the attorney and state law come into play.

Does it just come down to the ethics of the lender?

File BK POJO said. This raises another set of issues altogether. Why would a lender force your hand on this option? Attorney fees ares stripped down to cost under BK so again why would the lender not want their money earlier instead of later as with BK. They know under BK their will be no extra attorney fees which is irrelevant because they are not entitled to them anyway. It seems that the attorney for the lender is the one that stands to loose because had he been allowed to negotiate so the deal could happen he would come out a few thousand ahead of the BK option.

It infuriates me to hear someone say "just file BK". It is sad when it has to be done to protect yourself from mistakes, bad judgement or misfortune, but it is even sadder if you have to do it to protect yourself in a matter that should have been easily resolved.

"Professionals" in the industry have told me that what is happening here is wrong and that it should be questioned at the highest levels. The lender involved in this is allegedly doing similar things to other customers right now. It seems to be common knowledge in this "professional" world. Unlike most in foreclosure I have some options. In fact I have what the banking business considers one of the best options, another lender standing by to pay them so they can get rid of the unwanted note. Most do not I understand. They are at the mercy of the lender to the end so issues do not typically arise during the process.

I apologize again, for my original apology turned into something of a rant but this is not a simple subject and the problems here seem to run very deep into the lender. Maybe a simple whimsical answer seemed appropriate but as I hope you see now this is more complicated. If you do not understand then my communication skills must be dull.

[pojo2]

I did not read all the poor old me posts but I did get this far

Number One: I doubt by your attitude you ever had the nerve to start your own business and run it for 20 years and I do not mean a one horse operation with a shingle on the door, I mean a real business with employees, customers, venders, you know, real world business with real world problems

I STARTED/OWNED a multi million dollar per year Accounting Firm that I started by WORKING a full time job so I could hire someone to answer the phones in my shingled door then I came over to that shingled door and worked until midnight. Over 35 years and I retired, but guess what it was a forced (cancer with a six month death sentence, that was almost 6 years ago) retirement or I would still be doing it.

Now I throughly enjoy the fruits of my labor and apologize to NO ONE for doing so. Oh and I own 3 other businesses I own right now with employees, customers, vendors, you know, real business with real world problems.

Answer to your question is simple, I will even let you figure it out, WHO is the Atty working for? But just in case you do NOT get it, the answer is THE BANK!

See your own Atty and file the BK and stop the damn foreclosure.

Sorry but you caught me in a reeeeeeal bad mood!

But you have a real good evening!

[pojo2]

I did catch this little tidbit

I hope you see now this is more complicated

Your question really is WHY CAN'T I CUT MY OWN DEAL WITH AN ATTY WORKING FOR SOMEONE ELSE, and the answer is VERY simple, they work for the bank not you!

[pojo2]

As stated you caught me in a real bad mood

It infuriates me to hear someone say "just file BK". It is sad when it has to be done to protect yourself from mistakes, bad judgement or misfortune, but it is even sadder if you have to do it to protect yourself in a matter that should have been easily resolved.

I suggest you click the little ball beside my name, cursor down (it looks blank to begin but just cursor down) and read about 5 of my previous posts and you will see just how I DO feel about BK.

Hilarious! protect yourself in a matter that should have been easily resolved if only they would allow YOU to set the rules!

[sargentcarter]

Gee, I must have touched several raw nerves...hummm. I am impressed with your business credentials however, but we still aren't comparing apples to apples with our businesses because I do feel mine is much more complex than yours.

No, seriously, that was a joke, though it is true our businesses are extremely different. I chose the business I am in and can live with any consequences that may come as a result of that choice. If you recall I may have been a bit fuzzed up about the foreclosure action. Who wouldn't? Just let me pay and move on.

Back to business.

I understand the banks attorney works for them and not me, ok.
That is not the issue.
What does the lender gain by holding out for all the attorney fees? Why would they care what the attorney makes as long as he is happy and the case is settled?
I still do not have an answer to these questions.

So far I don't understand what your saying as it relates to my question. Please do not hesitate to spell it out as for a child. In block letters if you think it will help me understand.

I am not trying to change the rules of the game just understand them.

[pojo2]

Uncle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!