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Another fallen tree question...

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Nippy

Junior Member
What is the name of your state? Wis.

Hi All!

Is it legal to throw ("return") branches that have fallen onto a neighbor's property? If this happens, what recourse is available?

Thanks!
 
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HuAi

Member
No the fallen branches belong to the owner of the backyard where they fell. "Returning" them to the neighbor would be like throwing any other refuse over there.
 

HuAi

Member
Technically, its tresspassing, but I doubt police would get involved, especially without "No Tresspassing" signs posted. The neighbor could pay to have the branches removed and sue you for damages in small claims cort (or vice versa if you're the tree-stump owner!)
 

Nippy

Junior Member
So,

..if the tree belongs to me, and sheds on his property, the debris belongs to him. And, if he "returns" it to me, it's technically trespassing and illegal dumping. But, if I call the police, they won't do anything eventhough laws have been broken?
 

divgradcurl

Senior Member
..if the tree belongs to me, and sheds on his property, the debris belongs to him. And, if he "returns" it to me, it's technically trespassing and illegal dumping. But, if I call the police, they won't do anything eventhough laws have been broken?
Trespassing is usually a misdemeanor, if not an infraction, unless it involves burglary, or another more serious crime. As such, the police won't cite for it unless they see it happening. They won't cite for it when they get there after the fact -- they actually need to catch the person in the act.

You will need to take it to court yourself, probably small claims court.
 

Nippy

Junior Member
Trespassing is usually a misdemeanor, if not an infraction, unless it involves burglary, or another more serious crime. As such, the police won't cite for it unless they see it happening. They won't cite for it when they get there after the fact -- they actually need to catch the person in the act.

You will need to take it to court yourself, probably small claims court.
So, you're basically saying that when my neighbor continues to do this, calling the police (I live in a small town) won't result in anything? Even if i file a complaint?

I'm reluctant to go the small claims route as that's really a crap shoot: Facts often don't yield proper results, and all I want is the behavior to stop. I'm ot looking to spend the money to clean it up to sue for recovery.

thanks for your reply, i appreciate some direction based on things other than personal experience or feelings.
 

HuAi

Member
Post no tresspassing signs on your property lines, and set up a webcam to monitor your property line. I doubt police will want to get involved but if you go small claims route, that's your evidence.
 

divgradcurl

Senior Member
thanks for your reply, i appreciate some direction based on things other than personal experience or feelings.
This is not "personal experience or feelings." The police will only cite or arrest someone for criminal behavior, and if it's a misdemeanor (which criminal trespass is), they will only cite or arrest if it happens in their presence. Look up the criminal trespass statutes in Conn, and see if tossing branches over the fence counts as criminal trespass. If it does (it doesn't, but you might as well look up the statutes anyway), then if you witness the neighbor tossing stuff over the fence, you can effect a citizen's arrest, and the police WILL come out for that. Make sure that you are right, though, otherwise you can be sued for wrongful arrest.

Your remedy is in civil court. If you don't want to go to court, fine, but that's where your remedy lies.
 

Nippy

Junior Member
Last question.....

...if there are branches overhanging my property, if one of his trees leans over onto my property (over a grassy area, not my domicile), if i send a Certified letter stating my concerns about this tree, if he does not respond, do i have the option of cutting down the threatening part and take him to small claims court to recover that cost, or do I simply have the option of removing the branches etc. at my expense...must i wait for the tree to fall to clean it up and sue?
 

divgradcurl

Senior Member
You can cut anything that hangs over into your property, so long as it does not result in the death of the tree or plant. You are responsible for all of the costs.

Sending a certified letter may place the homeowner on notice, but it doesn't automatically make the neighbor responsible for cleanup if the tree later falls. The neighbor will be responsible for cleanup if he or she is found to be negligent in some way. Negligence in these types of cases is typically found when a property owner knew, or reasonably should have known, that the tree or plant was likely to cause damage, and did nothing to mitigate it.

In this case, if the tree is diseased or otherwise obviously unhealthy, a certified letter can be used later to help prove the requisite "notice" if you later have to sue to get a fallen tree cleaned up. However, if the tree is not diseased or unhealthy, and is just leaning, well, unless you have some specialized knowledge (you are an arborist or something), this may not be sufficient to create negligence. A leaning, but otherwise healthy tree, that falls does not necessarily mean that the neighbor was negligent. It might, but it will depend on all of the facts of the situation.

In other threads, where people have been advised to notify their neighbors in order to create notice for a later tort, neighbor's roots or vines have been causing actual damage, or have the potential to cause damage in a place where the plant owner would not know of the damage (roots in a cellar, for example). In those types of cases, it is imperative to put the neighbor on notice by sending a letter.

In the case of a tree, the neighbor is "on notice" if the tree is diseased or damaged such that a reasonable person would notice the disease or damage -- whether or not a letter is sent. The letter can help prove the notice, but it is not required.

The flip side, like I stated above, is that a letter cannot create the negligence if none exists. I can't send a letter to my neighbor saying that an otherwise healthy tree (or what appears to be healthy to a reasonable person) might cause damage if it fell, and then be able to sue for negligence later if the tree does fall, say, in a storm. In other words, a certified letter alone cannot turn an "act of god," for which you would be responsible for cleaning up and repairing, into negligence, which would shift the burden to your neighbor.

Again, if you have specialized knowledge or training, or were to hire someone with specialized knowledge or training, and then determine that the tree is problematic, then a letter may be able to create negligence later on. But a lay person cannot do this.
 

Nippy

Junior Member
Thanks so much for your time and patience here...

I'm confused: If I send the letter, and the tree falls, wouldn't that constitute him having sufficient knowledge that a situation existed? Wouldn't gravity in that situation support the original concern expressed in the letter?

Also, if I'm concerned about this tree leaning over and actually breaking in a storm, If he ignores my letter or states that his tree man could find no evidence of disease, etc, that it is actually just leaning and hung up in the crown/branches of my tree, I have to wait for it to fall to bring suit? That doesn't seem right. Isn't it's leaning and hung up status constitute a situation that would fall under the 'should have known' clause?

So, I either clean it up now to avoid problems later andpay myself, or wait for it to fall and hope that I can recover?

Again, thanks for your time, i really appreciate it!
 

divgradcurl

Senior Member
I'm confused: If I send the letter, and the tree falls, wouldn't that constitute him having sufficient knowledge that a situation existed? Wouldn't gravity in that situation support the original concern expressed in the letter?
Like I said, maybe. If the tree really is a nuisance, then yes, If not, then no.

Also, if I'm concerned about this tree leaning over and actually breaking in a storm, If he ignores my letter or states that his tree man could find no evidence of disease, etc, that it is actually just leaning and hung up in the crown/branches of my tree, I have to wait for it to fall to bring suit? That doesn't seem right. Isn't it's leaning and hung up status constitute a situation that would fall under the 'should have known' clause?
If he has an expert in trees that tells him the tree is normal, it's safe, etc., and yet the tree blows over in a storm, if you end in court, it's unlikely -- possible, but unlikely -- that a judge or jury would accept your opinion of whether or not the tree was unsafe over the opinion of a (presumably unbiased) tree expert.

My point about the letter is this -- if you send a letter to put him "on notice" and the tree falls, that does not make him automatically liable for the damage. If he can prove that there was nothing wrong with the tree, then it will be an "act of god" and he most likely won't be liable for the cleanup. You can't "create" negligence like this -- my neighbor has trees that are near the property line, I can't simply send him a letter and from now on he is liable should one of those trees ever fall -- there has to be some reason why they are likely to fall.

I don't know your trees, and I am not a tree expert in any event -- maybe your neighbor's tree DOES constitute a potential hazard and you do need to put him on notice -- all I am saying is that notice isn't the be all - end all. You have to have reason to give the notice.

As far as waiting to bring suit, if the tree is in real danger of falling and causing damage to your house, you could go and try an obtain an injunction forcing him to remove the tree, or otherwise abate the dangerous nuisance -- you will need to talk to a lawyer, and likely hire a tree expert to first examine the situation, and then later testify at the hearing. Whether or not this is cost effective will depend on the situation -- talk to a local lawyer or two to weigh your options.

You can't use small claims court until you have actually been damaged in some way -- you can only recover monetary losses in small claims.

So, I either clean it up now to avoid problems later andpay myself, or wait for it to fall and hope that I can recover?
That's pretty much it, unless, like I said, its worth pursuing injunctive relief.

Now, there is always the possibility that you could mitigate the hazard yourself, by trimming and pruning or whatever now, and then sue the neighbor to recover your costs in small claims -- but winning such a case is probably a long shot.
 

las365

Senior Member
It seems that you have at least one tree that's a problem or potential problem and your neighbor has at least one tree that's a problem or a potential problem.

I have a wacky idea. Why don't you get an estimate or two from arborist/tree trimming services in your area for the cost of an inspection and evaluation of your trees and the neighbor's rees? TALK to your neighbor and ask if he would be willing to divide the cost to have them come out and look at the trees and do some tree trimming.

You would both end up with a professional evaluation of the trees for future use, if necessary, and the tree debris and potential future damage issues could be alleviated.
 

Nippy

Junior Member
Will you be my neighbor?

It seems that you have at least one tree that's a problem or potential problem and your neighbor has at least one tree that's a problem or a potential problem.

I have a wacky idea. Why don't you get an estimate or two from arborist/tree trimming services in your area for the cost of an inspection and evaluation of your trees and the neighbor's rees? TALK to your neighbor and ask if he would be willing to divide the cost to have them come out and look at the trees and do some tree trimming.

You would both end up with a professional evaluation of the trees for future use, if necessary, and the tree debris and potential future damage issues could be alleviated.

LOL! If I was living next door to someone reasonable, then certainly I would take your excellent (and common sense!) appraoch. Unfortunately, I'm living next to a cretin. And equally unfortunate (at least in this circumstance), being somewhat higher evolved, i am at a bit of a loss as to how to proceed. Humanity moves forward when all participants agree to play by the same set of rules: Common decency.
 

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