Boundary issue

[skycitadel]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? oklahoma

Hello,

I moved into my house in 2001. My neighbor to the West side talked to me in about 2004 about getting rid of the fence along part of our boundary where his driveway is. At the time he spoke about it being old and ugly. I told him no I didnt want to since our houses are fairly close i liked any deflection of sounds from his driveway that i could get.

In 2010 the same neighbor got a survey( at least he says) since i was not home at the time. I came home to find survey stakes 4" to 7" deep on my side of the fence.

I tried asking him what he was intending to do since if he did decide to get rid of the fence then I would have to fence at least part of my yard to keep it fenced in. So far no answer. Six months later and he still had not said what he was going to do, so i asked him if it was ok to remove the stakes and he said no, that would be illegal. ( he is a lawyer)

My questions are this.
1. Is there a way I can check to see if he really had a survey done?
2. Do i have to leave the stakes in the ground forever?
3. The fence was old when i moved in and has been there now probably at least 20 years. Would it be an easy argument to make in court that the property line should be where it was since it was accepted there for so long? Considering the neighbor is a lawyer with many judge friends.
4. Since the movement of the property line was so small at most 7" is that in the margin of error? If i got my own survey would it be that much different?

thanks,
skycitadel

 

[csi7]

Have your own property survey done and check to make sure the stakes he has up are not on your property.
Then you will have legal standing on what you want to do.

 

[NC Aggie]

My questions are this.
1. Is there a way I can check to see if he really had a survey done?
2. Do i have to leave the stakes in the ground forever?
3. The fence was old when i moved in and has been there now probably at least 20 years. Would it be an easy argument to make in court that the property line should be where it was since it was accepted there for so long? Considering the neighbor is a lawyer with many judge friends.
4. Since the movement of the property line was so small at most 7" is that in the margin of error? If i got my own survey would it be that much different?

thanks,
skycitadel

1. As far as confirming whether your neighbor had a survey done, there is nothing that would be filed or in public records for this type of survey. Even if you confirmed that your neighbor did in fact have a survey done, there's nothing that says you have to accept it. You can always hire your own survey. However, people are often under the misconception that a (registered) surveyor hired by an individual will intentionally altar surveys that to make them favorable for their client...and that generally isn't true.

2. As far as the stakes, they're intended as temporary markers...they're not the legal corners which are permanent (typically irons), which is against the law to remove in most states if not all. So when people reference laws associated with removing survey corners, they're misinformed if they're referring to the temporary wooden stakes. Now, if your neighbor has a survey completed, you should allow the stakes to remain for a period of time.

3. As far as the fence being the accepted property line for 20 years, there is such a thing as adverse possession. You would have to confirm that all the conditions have been satisfied to claim adverse possession but it certainly appears that you may have a valid claim for adverse possession. One of the stipulation is continuous possesion for specific period of time from varies from state to state. In Oklahoma, that length of possession is 15 years. Even though you've only been in the property for about 10 years, there is a such thing as "tacking on" to the previous period of possesion by the property owner before you.

4. There is no such thing as margin of error in boundary lines, the property corners are absolute, making the property lines absolute. If the corners are lost or can't be recovered, then their original location may be subject to the opinion of the surveyor. There is always some error in subsequent survey staking, but if error exists in this recent survey it's impossible to know if it's due to staking or location of corners.

 

[154NH773]

1. Is there a way I can check to see if he really had a survey done?
2. Do i have to leave the stakes in the ground forever?

Ask to see a copy of the survey. Call around to local surveyors and ask if they did the survey. If they did, and you question the bounds, they will more than likely sit down and talk with you and explain how they came to their conclusions on where the boundarys are.

3. The fence was old when i moved in and has been there now probably at least 20 years. Would it be an easy argument to make in court that the property line should be where it was since it was accepted there for so long? Considering the neighbor is a lawyer with many judge friends.

Who says it was accepted there? It is common for fences to be installed slightly inside a property line so the owner can maintain both sides of the fence. Do you have any proof that the previous owner of your property installed the fence? And NO; there is no easy argument made in court. You must usually have absolute proof of your claim, and his being a local lawyer will not help you, that's for sure. As my lawyer cousin told me; "The law is a club, and you're not a member."

4. Since the movement of the property line was so small at most 7" is that in the margin of error? If i got my own survey would it be that much different?

As you've already been told; there is no "margin of error". That being said, surveyors make more mistakes than you would believe, so the proper thing to do is get your own survey, and let the surveyors argue over any differences.
I would advise against pulling out any stakes until you can prove with your own survey that they are on your property.

 

[HomeGuru]

Have your own property survey done and check to make sure the stakes he has up are not on your property.
Then you will have legal standing on what you want to do.

**A: good advice.

 

[Terminus]

Surveying

While I would usually recommend getting a survey....the stakes being within 7" of the fence should make you feel secure in the location of the boundary as staked out by the surveyor.

The truth about fences is that very rarely is a surveyor involved in the installation of a fence. So the fence is put in as close to the line as the fence builder can....but since he is not a surveyor he can't legal say that the fence is right on the boundary...he can only try to get it close.

As for trying to adverse claim the property to the fence....the reality is it would be cheaper to get a survey done and build a new fence. We aren't talking an acre of land.....we are talking a small sliver with no real monetary gain in your home value.