Fence line questions?

[littleman]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Tennessee

I have a neighbor with a fence about 3-4 feet high, not a privacy fence. I do not use this fence or connect to it in any way, I have no fence. He does not maintain the back side of his fence so it has grown higher than the entire fence. I maintain to about 2 feet away from his fence. After years of looking at it I finally called the codes department and they sent him a letter saying he needs to maintain the weeds/grass. He called on the last day and said that it was on the back side of the fence and was my problem. It seems crazy that the city would just "stop" and do nothing at that point. I guess I would have never known any of that except I called to ask if the "deadline" for him to take care of it was passed.

I am waiting on a call back from the inspector to find out what the next steps are but I would like to know my options before he calls me back.

1. Shouldn't the inspector "assume" that the owner of the fence is responsible unless the owner proves they are not with some kind of yard survey? Surely I don't have to prove that I don't own my neighbors fence line?

2. If my neighbor proved that the fence was on the property line does that automatically get him out of having to maintain the back side of the fence?

3. If the fence is on the property line and I am responsible for maintaining a fence line, does that make it a partition fence and applicable for partition fence laws?

4. I see several tennessee fence laws for partition fences that say either neighbor of a partition fence can remove the partition fence with a 6 month written notice. Does that mean if I am responsible for the back side of his fence that I can take it down?

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Tennessee

I have a neighbor with a fence about 3-4 feet high, not a privacy fence. I do not use this fence or connect to it in any way, I have no fence. He does not maintain the back side of his fence so it has grown higher than the entire fence. I maintain to about 2 feet away from his fence. After years of looking at it I finally called the codes department and they sent him a letter saying he needs to maintain the weeds/grass. He called on the last day and said that it was on the back side of the fence and was my problem. It seems crazy that the city would just "stop" and do nothing at that point. I guess I would have never known any of that except I called to ask if the "deadline" for him to take care of it was passed.

Its almost guaranteed that the bolded is a problem. Its highly unlikely that your neighbor has set his fence two feet back from the property line, therefore you definitely are not maintaining all of your own property. If its right on the property line, then you should be maintaining everything on your side of the fence.

 

[justalayman]

has anybody ever had a survey done so somebody might know where the actual property line is?


If not, how are you or the neighbor determining where the line actually is?

 

[littleman]

has anybody ever had a survey done so somebody might know where the actual property line is?
If not, how are you or the neighbor determining where the line actually is?

I have never seen any stakes back there and I do not know where the line is. Who does the law side with until proof of a property line is given? I would hope that they make the owner of the fence take care of their own fence unless proven otherwise. If he has proof that it is on the property line then what are my options?

If the inspector just goes on "word" then I'll say it's one foot away. If no one has proof how does anyone know?

Its almost guaranteed that the bolded is a problem. Its highly unlikely that your neighbor has set his fence two feet back from the property line, therefore you definitely are not maintaining all of your own property. If its right on the property line, then you should be maintaining everything on your side of the fence.

Are you saying that I can have a fence in my back yard, that I do not want, that I do not use, that nothing I have attaches to and I would have to maintain the edge along that fence? It's not even a privacy fence! My yard is up and hill and even if it was it wouldn't offer him any privacy unless it was about 20 feet tall.

If the city declares it a partition fence then tennesee code 44-8-208 (or codes around there) say that I can legally remove a partition fence with a 6 month notice. I don't know what the legal procedure is around that but I can't wait to talk to this inspector!

 

[justalayman]

You are going to have to find out if the neighbor is arguing the property on your side of the fence is yours or his. If it is his, he is liable for it. If it is yours, you are.

If nobody can prove which is which, I suspect it will be whomever claims the land will be held responsible for it. If nobody claims it, only the city knows what it will do. If they ticket somebody that does not believe they are liable, then that person is going to have to prove it is not their land and then everybody will know whose it is since it will take a survey to do that.

Are you saying that I can have a fence in my back yard, that I do not want, that I do not use, that nothing I have attaches to and I would have to maintain the edge along that fence? It's not even a privacy fence! My yard is up and hill and even if it was it wouldn't offer him any privacy unless it was about 20 feet tall.

none of that matters. The only thing that matters is whomever's property it is is responsible to maintain it.

If the city declares it a partition fence then tennesee code 44-8-208 (or codes around there) say that I can legally remove a partition fence with a 6 month notice. I don't know what the legal procedure is around that but I can't wait to talk to this inspector!

the city cannot declare it anything (officially) It requires a court to declare it anything in an official manner and that would also require a survey.



Find out what the neighbor said about the land before you take any action.

 

[littleman]

You are going to have to find out if the neighbor is arguing the property on your side of the fence is yours or his. If it is his, he is liable for it. If it is yours, you are.

The notes from the inspector, that the operator was able to tell me, was that the guy called in and said that the weeds on the back side of his fence were mine and not his. It sounded like that just put the whole case on hold until someone else calls in and complains. Crappy system I guess.

I would assume from this that he believes the property zero inches past the fence is mine (bad to assume I know). Again without a survey it seems like this would be my word against his, regardless of where the line is. I'll make sure to ask the inspector how he knows that property is mine that I think it's one foot away

If there is tall grass that the city wants mowed and two neighbors that each say a different thing, how does the city decide who is at fault? Maybe the city would force him to pay for half of a survey, that would be great. I would happily pay the other half.

 

[bdancer]

The notes from the inspector, that the operator was able to tell me, was that the guy called in and said that the weeds on the back side of his fence were mine and not his. It sounded like that just put the whole case on hold until someone else calls in and complains. Crappy system I guess.

I would assume from this that he believes the property zero inches past the fence is mine (bad to assume I know). Again without a survey it seems like this would be my word against his, regardless of where the line is. I'll make sure to ask the inspector how he knows that property is mine that I think it's one foot away

If there is tall grass that the city wants mowed and two neighbors that each say a different thing, how does the city decide who is at fault? Maybe the city would force him to pay for half of a survey, that would be great. I would happily pay the other half.

Just a personal opinion, but I would just mow the two feet up to the fence and forget about it. How much time would it take to do one more swipe with the lawnmower to get that two feet? Life is too short to get hung up on this. Not to mention wasting code enforcement and inspector's time.

Pick your battles.

 

[littleman]

Just a personal opinion, but I would just mow the two feet up to the fence and forget about it. How much time would it take to do one more swipe with the lawnmower to get that two feet? Life is too short to get hung up on this. Not to mention wasting code enforcement and inspector's time.
Pick your battles.

When you say pick your battles I have specifically picked this one. I've put up with this neighbor for over seven years and this time I'm not going to let it slide. I already have to walk outside every day and look at a garbage dump in his back yard.

I used to mow pretty close but as weeds took over it expanded out slowly over the years. It's also no longer possible to mow that two foot area. It would take trimming with clippers and a hedge trimmer or some kind of tractor before a regular mower would go over it.

 

[STEPHAN]

If you really want to fight this issue. why don't you order a survey? That's the utlimate solution.

 

[justalayman]

why not just accept the property as his gift to you?

 

[littleman]

why not just accept the property as his gift to you?

If him saying that side is mine is enough to consider it a partition fence, which I can take down, then that would be great. I hope the inspector can give me some information on how to go about doing that. I would be happy to maintain my side for 6 months until it's gone.

 

[justalayman]

If you do not know exactly where the line is it would be the wise move to just leave the fence alone. If you remove the fence and then it is discovered it really is on his side by 2 feet, it could result in criminal charges. Either spend the money for a survey and act as that allows or leave the fence alone.

 

[littleman]

I agree 100%. To remove a partition fence I assume some sort of procedure would need to be followed. Survey, some paperwork filed with the city, a certified copy mailed to the neighbor, etc. Firing a random letter in the mail and tearing down a fence sounds like how you would get shot.

What does "on the property line" even mean? Is 2 inches from the property line "on it"? That would make him responsible for the boards and maybe 2 inches of weeds but nothing else I suppose...

 

[justalayman]

ON the line is ON the line. The line is the immeasurable point where your property touches his.

granted, a court will not interpret it that tightly, but that is what ON the line is.

A few inches is not on the line if the neighbor did not intend the fence to be a partition fence. If he did, then that would likely be close enough.

and again, without a survey, nobody can argue where the line is because none of you actually know where it is,.

 

[TheGeekess]

When you say pick your battles I have specifically picked this one. I've put up with this neighbor for over seven years and this time I'm not going to let it slide. I already have to walk outside every day and look at a garbage dump in his back yard.

I used to mow pretty close but as weeds took over it expanded out slowly over the years. It's also no longer possible to mow that two foot area. It would take trimming with clippers and a hedge trimmer or some kind of tractor before a regular mower would go over it.

Wait a year or so and you won't be able to see his property for the privet.