I cut some trees down

[dz1966]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? MI

I cut some trees down, but prior to doing so, I made several measurements to make sure they were on my property. The activity took four weekends to complete and my neighbor never said a word. After it was done, my neighbor took pictures of the stumps and several weeks later had a survey done. Now none of the pictures show the relationship between the stumps and the property line. The surveyor did not even make references to the stumps on the survey. They are still suing me for damages. Even though I have several witnesses/sworn statements, I have no idea how it will turn out. What is the burden of proof my neighbor has to present in order to win this civil lawsuit?

And what is the definition of who owns the tree in the state of Michigan?

 

[FlyingRon]

He'd have to show that the tree (the part in the ground) is at least in part on his property.
Normally the best way to proceed would to have a surveyor mark the property line to show the trees were on his side.

 

[dz1966]

Here is where it gets tricky or does it? He had a survey done and now claims the trees were on his property. However, he has no proof (ex pictures). Myself and a few others looked at the situation and found they were on my property. Now, if I would have known than what I know now, I would have taken some pictures. At that time, nothing was said, so I assumed he recognized the trees were on my property so proceeded to grind the stumps, brought some dirt in, and planted grass. Over a year past and he filed a lawsuit against me. I do not understand why the judge has not thrown this case out. No reasonable jury would agree with my neighbor's claim as there is no proof that the trees were on his property. I do get a sense that this judge is bias against me because I am not an attorney.

 

[latigo]

Here is where it gets tricky or does it? He had a survey done and now claims the trees were on his property. However, he has no proof (ex pictures). Myself and a few others looked at the situation and found they were on my property. Now, if I would have known than what I know now, I would have taken some pictures. At that time, nothing was said, so I assumed he recognized the trees were on my property so proceeded to grind the stumps, brought some dirt in, and planted grass. Over a year past and he filed a lawsuit against me. I do not understand why the judge has not thrown this case out. No reasonable jury would agree with my neighbor's claim as there is no proof that the trees were on his property. I do get a sense that this judge is bias against me because I am not an attorney.

How do you know what evidence your neighbor has as to the former location of those trees in relation to the boundary line? Has there been any discovery? Is the true boundary line physically defined, stakes, fencing, monuments, etc.?

If you are representing yourself in this lawsuit, and apparently you are, then in the words of Abe Lincoln “you have a fool for a client.”

And here acting foolishly on top of foolishness by hoping to prevail by relying on the assumed weakness of the opponent’s case. Which is a proven recipe for disaster.

If the neigbor's case is as spurious as you claim, then why hasn't it been disposed of by an appropriate motion?

 

[154NH773]

I do get a sense that this judge is bias against me because I am not an attorney.

That could very well be the case. If you have done most of the legwork, then hire an attorney. If the case is already proceeding in court with you acting as your own attorney, then it may be too late for you to file a motion to dismiss. Is this a Small Claims action?

 

[dz1966]

It's in court. And the evidence they have does not include pictures of the stumps and markings of the line. Unfornately, I do not have any money to hire an attorney. And our great system of justice does not help those in need when it come to civil cases. If the system discriminates against someone solely because they cannot afford an attorney, I say that is a sad statement on our country. The facts are the facts and fancy legal words because one has a law degree should not override that fact. If I do not have $$$ to hire an attorney, I certainly do not have it to pay damages if the court rules against the facts in this case. Am I pissed, you bet I am. I will be forced to file bankruptcy simply because I could not afford an attorney. THAT IS A WONDERFUL SYSTEM OF JUSTICE!!!

 

[FlyingRon]

Don't scream at us.

Get a surveyor and have a plat prepared showing the property line and the location of the stumps. This will be cheaper than an attorney.

 

[154NH773]

If the system discriminates against someone solely because they cannot afford an attorney, I say that is a sad statement on our country.

As someone who has litigated without an attorney, I understand your frustration. That being said, the system also expects YOU to follow legal procedure and know what you are doing in court. If you are competent and knowledgeable enough to litigate your own case, then you probably wouldn't be on this forum asking questions you should already know the answers to.

So you are up against a system that expects you will know what you are doing, and also is made up of lawyers who will hold you in distain for not being up to their standards. My cousin, who is a lawyer, reminded me that the law is a club, and I'm not a member; neither are you. The courts are certainly biased toward the wealthy and powerful, but occasionally they can be unbiased and fair.

Your neighbor must prove his claims, but you must ensure that the court knows his claims are without merit. The court will not do your job for you. In a sense, the court is nothing more than a referee; you must kick the goal.

 

[dz1966]

I did not mean to scream at you. I understand the process but I merely asked what my neighbor has to provide as proof. I have read several things on the internet and merely wanted some clarification. By asking this I was told by using Abe Lincoln's words I am fool for representing my self and I took offense. Sorry.

 

[Willlyjo]

As someone who has litigated without an attorney, I understand your frustration. That being said, the system also expects YOU to follow legal procedure and know what you are doing in court. If you are competent and knowledgeable enough to litigate your own case, then you probably wouldn't be on this forum asking questions you should already know the answers to.

So you are up against a system that expects you will know what you are doing, and also is made up of lawyers who will hold you in distain for not being up to their standards. My cousin, who is a lawyer, reminded me that the law is a club, and I'm not a member; neither are you. The courts are certainly biased toward the wealthy and powerful, but occasionally they can be unbiased and fair.

Your neighbor must prove his claims, but you must ensure that the court knows his claims are without merit. The court will not do your job for you. In a sense, the court is nothing more than a referee; you must kick the goal.

Or...throw the first pass, or swing at the pitch, or shoot the freethrow...etc.

 

[latigo]

It's in court. And the evidence they have does not include pictures of the stumps and markings of the line. Unfornately, I do not have any money to hire an attorney. And our great system of justice does not help those in need when it come to civil cases. If the system discriminates against someone solely because they cannot afford an attorney, I say that is a sad statement on our country. The facts are the facts and fancy legal words because one has a law degree should not override that fact. If I do not have $$$ to hire an attorney, I certainly do not have it to pay damages if the court rules against the facts in this case. Am I pissed, you bet I am. I will be forced to file bankruptcy simply because I could not afford an attorney. THAT IS A WONDERFUL SYSTEM OF JUSTICE!!!

You destroyed a copse of trees growing near an ill defined property boundary line without preserving any physical evidence that the boles were on your property; did not secure a written acknowledgement from the abutting neighbor that they were not his trees and/or his consent that they be removed and you are blaming our WONDERFUL SYSTEM OF JUSTICE because you are being sued? Good thinking!

You keep mentioning facts, facts, and fancy legal words overriding facts. But what facts? You have yet to allude to one favorable element of proof that the boles of those trees were on your property other than that you made some preliminary “measurements”.

It cuts both ways. What admissible evidence is in your bag that will satisfactorily rebut the neighbor’s evidence? How do you intend to establish the accuracy of your measurements? What existing monuments if any were used as the base line for your measurements? Can you physically identify the results of your measurements? Did you make and retain notes of your measurements? Could you this moment go out to the yard and physically located the line as you measured it?

Assuming that the survey is inconsistent with your measurements, how do you intend to rebut the expert testimony and field notes of the plaintiff’s surveyor?

Do you know what evidence/testimony the plaintiff intends to offer to establish the value of the trees and thus his damages? Do you have any evidence of their value?

In sum, from what you have disclosed I don’t think there’s much doubt that the neighbor will be able to prove a prima facie case against you. Meaning taking his evidence at face value and the trial ending at that juncture, he would be entitled to a judgment.

At that point the burden will pass to you to prove by a preponderance of the evidence – that is, your evidence is more persuasive - that the trees were in fact growing on your land and not his.

But without comparable expert testimony to refute the plaintiff’s expert – and you almost have to believe that it is available to the plaintiff otherwise there wouldn’t have been a survey and a lawsuit –your chances look grim.

I’m very aware of the high cost of litigation as limiting your options. However, you might find some pro bono help here:

Michigan Indian Legal Services Private Attorney Involvement Program
Primary Address: 134 W State St
City: Traverse City
State: MI
Zipcode: 49684-2404
General Phone: 231-947-0122
Fax: 231-947-3956
Intake Phone: 800-968-6877

 

[csi7]

1. Do a google map your area, see what the picture of the property area in question shows. You might luck out and the picture is old enough to show the trees in question.

2. Take a picture from all angles of the area in question with a common marker in place for all of the pictures so you have them to display your timeline.

3. Set up your timeline, and the length of time it took the neighbor to file the complaint.

4. Practice being calm, cool, collected in front of the mirror presenting your information carefully, stating facts you can prove (photos, documents, etc...).

5. The more you know your case inside and out, the better prepared you will be in the courtroom.

Best wishes.




4.

 

[Proseguru]

why were the trees cut down, disease? Dead? This may factor into their value.

 

[dz1966]

Ok let me summarize without writing a novel:

Their 'evidence':

(1) picture of tree stumps without any markings indicating the property line
(2) statement from my neighbor
(3) statement from their surveyor
(4) a survey done in 1998 (the trees were cut in 2009)
(5) no surveyor field notes
(6) no marking of tree locations on the survey
(7) satellite photos but you cannot see the trunks of any trees and therefore where they are located

My 'evidence':

(1) My statement consisting of the timeline (it took over a year for my neighbor to say anything)
(2) Statement from the individual that helped me backing up my statement
(3) Measurements calculated from recorded dimensions of my property
(4) An acquired survey from when my property was created by subdividing a larger parcel.
(5) I had a boundary survey completed as well.
(6) My measurements are confirmed by the surveys.
(7) Pictures showing the trees formed a curve into my property
(8) Additional statements from other individuals confirming #7

I think that's it. Note: none of their 'evidence' proves the stumps were on their property. Don't they need some kind of proof verses just a statement?

 

[FlyingRon]

(1) My statement consisting of the timeline (it took over a year for my neighbor to say anything)

Which means nothing unless the time exceeds the statute of limitations on filing such a suit (which appears to be 3 years)

Most likely what is going to happen is they will show their survey and show where they believe the trees to be.
You will provide your survey and where you believe the trees to be.
That's about a 50-50% crap shoot where the judge will determine if one side looks more dominating than the other.
As I said, an accurate, current survey showing the stumps would be almost irrefutable (it would take another surveyor to show that yours made an error). Your location plats aren't always the best things to base measurements on. I'd at least TALK to a surveyor to get him to give you some pointers on how to demonstrate your interpretation is correct.