Legally obligated to pay for fence on parcel property??

[m_john_RWC]

What is the name of your state? California

I own property adjacent to my house property that has a small chicken wire fence on it that I have no idea who put up. This parcel of land is a boundary between my next door neighbor, a city park and a neighbor across the small creek that runs from the park and is located behind my house.

I recently was approached about paying for 1/2 of a fence by the neighbor across the creek. They stated they had to replace it because of the past winters had damaged the fence so that it was unsafe. These neighbors have a pool which by law they have to have a fence. The only fences on my house parcel property are the ones shared with my direct next door neighbors. I have no backyard fence that is the boundary of the park or on the adjacent parcel of property except for this chicken wire fence.

The city park creek separates my parcel property from this neighbor. I have no wish to put up fences on this parcel. Also, my adjacent parcel of land only borders 1/3 of the fence they put up. Am I responsible for paying 1/2 of the cost of this fence? They are now threatening me with small claims court citing CA Civil Code 841.

CA Civil Code 841 states:
"Coterminous owners are mutually bound equally to maintain:

1. The boundaries and monuments between them;

2. The fences between them, unless one of them chooses to let his land lie without fencing; in which case, if he afterwards incloses it, he must refund to the other a just proportion of the value, at that time, of any division fence made by the latter."

As I do not wish to put up fences, am I legally obligated to pay for the fence?

 

[efflandt]

If the fence is not a border between your property an theirs, you should have no liability for it. Even if you own the creek and your fence is not anywhere near connected to their fence, I don't see you would be responsible. Are there any local ordinances for fence setback requirements for fences that are not mutually agreed boundary fences?

 

[Ozark_Sophist]

At most you would be responsible for 1/2 the cost of the fence between your properties, so about 1/6 of the cost. As you choose to have no fence, you are not responsible for any portion. I am unsure of your description of the lay of land as to the park, but regardless, I do not see how you could be held responsible for even the 1/6 portion of costs.

 

[divgradcurl]

What is the name of your state? California

I own property adjacent to my house property that has a small chicken wire fence on it that I have no idea who put up. This parcel of land is a boundary between my next door neighbor, a city park and a neighbor across the small creek that runs from the park and is located behind my house.

I recently was approached about paying for 1/2 of a fence by the neighbor across the creek. They stated they had to replace it because of the past winters had damaged the fence so that it was unsafe. These neighbors have a pool which by law they have to have a fence. The only fences on my house parcel property are the ones shared with my direct next door neighbors. I have no backyard fence that is the boundary of the park or on the adjacent parcel of property except for this chicken wire fence.

The city park creek separates my parcel property from this neighbor. I have no wish to put up fences on this parcel. Also, my adjacent parcel of land only borders 1/3 of the fence they put up. Am I responsible for paying 1/2 of the cost of this fence? They are now threatening me with small claims court citing CA Civil Code 841.

CA Civil Code 841 states:
"Coterminous owners are mutually bound equally to maintain:

1. The boundaries and monuments between them;

2. The fences between them, unless one of them chooses to let his land lie without fencing; in which case, if he afterwards incloses it, he must refund to the other a just proportion of the value, at that time, of any division fence made by the latter."

As I do not wish to put up fences, am I legally obligated to pay for the fence?

It is not clear from my reading of your post -- is your backyard (or land) fenced in on all sides? If so, you are responsible for 1/2 of that fence. If not, you are not. If not, and later you do fence your yard in, then you become reponsible for 1/2 of that fence.

 

[m_john_RWC]

I had parcel property surveyed to know parcel boundary. This parcel is fallow and has been left this way for 50+ years. The creek that runs through it is the cities "run off and flood control" efforts in my area according to what I can find online. In doing the survey, I found out that these neighbors bought the fallow parcel next to mine and connects directly to their house parcel property.

In the physical survey, they marked this parcel using the historical landmarks/monuments. I had stakes put in to mark parcel property deed lines and found that they built the fence on their property! They have provided me with another company's survey, however, which shows we share the fence line. So, they are still threatening me with small claims court even though they replaced the fence without asking me or providing estimates and agreement to replace the fence.

My surveyor recommended sending a certified letter back to them indicating they replaced the fence without prior verbal agreement, providing me written estimates and a contract agreement to split the cost. He recommended I research civil code 841 obligations of a "good neighbor", but I can't find anything! He stated this is a fallow parcel land and not a direct neighbor to them so I am not obligated to split the cost.

Does anyone know what he is speaking about? And, is he correct about fallow parcel and being a direct neighbor?

 

[ErinGoBragh]

841. Coterminous owners are mutually bound equally to maintain:
1. The boundaries and monuments between them;
2. The fences between them, unless one of them chooses to let his
land lie without fencing; in which case, if he afterwards incloses
it, he must refund to the other a just proportion of the value, at
that time, of any division fence made by the latter.

841.4. Any fence or other structure in the nature of a fence
unnecessarily exceeding 10 feet in height maliciously erected or
maintained for the purpose of annoying the owner or occupant of
adjoining property is a private nuisance. Any owner or occupant of
adjoining property injured either in his comfort or the enjoyment of
his estate by such nuisance may enforce the remedies against its
continuance prescribed in Title 3, Part 3, Division 4 of this code.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=32676324790+0+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve

 

[m_john_RWC]

I know what the civil code states as I quoted it in my inital post, what I am looking for is the process required.

Example of what I was told was out there:
1. Verbally discuss replacing fence with neighbor
2. Obtain 3 written estimates/quotes
3. Discuss estimates with neighbor
4. Decide on quote and pricing
5. Put agreement in writting splitting cost
6. Have fence replaced

Is there anything out there like that?

 

[divgradcurl]

Here's the problem you are going to have -- the statutes are what they are, what you would like to see is caselaw that expands on and explains the statutes. I haven't actually researched the caselaw in this area, but I suspect it will be sparse, mostly because most of the issues will probably come in below or around the small-claims limit, and will be heard there -- and there aren't any published cases that come out of small claims court.

If you want to find more information, try and find a law library you can use. You can look up the caselaw on Lexis or Westlaw, or you can see if they have a set of Witkin's Summary of California Law.

There are some free online caselaw search services, but they are usually incomplete -- you are better off with a law library, and Witkins.

 

[seniorjudge]

I know what the civil code states as I quoted it in my inital post, what I am looking for is the process required.

Example of what I was told was out there:
1. Verbally discuss replacing fence with neighbor
2. Obtain 3 written estimates/quotes
3. Discuss estimates with neighbor
4. Decide on quote and pricing
5. Put agreement in writting splitting cost
6. Have fence replaced

Is there anything out there like that?

I think all 6 steps sound reasonable.