Neighbor just installed 42" snow fence between our properties in city and looks BAD

[oachs83]

Neighbor just installed 42" snow fence between our properties in city and looks BAD

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Minnesota

Hello, I came home today to see my neighbor installed a 42" tall plastic snow fence between our properties. It does not surround his yard just between our properties and is very poorly done. It is the temporarily cheap plastic green snow fence that is basically the exact same as the orange fence you see on many construction sites. The kind that is the very thin plastic with an abundance of holes throughout the fencing. It is hung with very cheap metal fencing posts and the fence was put up very amateurish as it sags badly and not at all attractive. I have lived next to this neighbor for over 6 years now and never had a problem with him but hear chatter through the "grapevine" for whatever reason he does not care for me. I pretty much keep to myself and make small talk with him and have even given him a hand when he needs mechanical work done to his vehicle or help when he was remodeling his basement as he is not even close to the handyman type and it is basically what I do for a living. I am more than happy to help the guy out throughout the years but I have noticed the last year or so he seems "put off" by me or short with me. I honestly have no idea what I would have done as I keep to myself majority of the time and have never had a problem with anyone in the area. As I said I heard through the grapevine he seems to have discussed with others in the area that he has a problem with dog poop creeping over into his yard. The thing is when I let my dogs out I am ALWAYS watching them and when they do get close to the property line I direct them towards me to finish their business. The kicker is he has a dog as well. I am not watching so I have no idea if his dog is doing his business near the property but I am sure mine are not.

So now you have what I can tell you of a background and this eye sore of a fence is in between our property. I try to find out what I could this evening online about ordinances in my city and basically got out of it if the fence is over 30" tall he needs a permit. It is at 42" and I am sure there is no permit. There has to be something about the quality or integrity of the fence. I mean this thing is an absolute eyesore that looks like a 10 year old constructed. Also it goes straight to the ground and I believe roughly a foot onto his property. So does he have to go onto my property to mow? Our ground will be frozen in a couple weeks and if this fence is illegal will they even be ale to pull the stakes? I have a plot map and My property on the side yard is 7 feet to the property line. There is a 6 foot setback and a 5 foot easement from the property line. I am not sure what all that means however. I am going to call the city tomorrow but feel I always want as much info as possible to prepare myself before I contact the city or discuss with my neighbor so I am properly educated with the conflict. So I ask you on the forum for any bit of good advice I can get from you to help me out. Thank You, also here is the link to what I can find about fencing in my city. I wish I could take a picture but it is dark out. The thing is hideous. Thanks.

http://www.mankato-mn.gov/Fence-Regulations/Page.aspx


From the ordinance

11.000 Fences.

No fence or wall shall be erected, enlarged, expanded, altered, relocated, maintained, or repaired in any yard unless it shall first meet the requirements of this Section.
A. Construction. 1. Prohibited Material. No fence or wall shall be constructed of any electrically charged element or barbed wire, except that in the Industrial Districts barbed wire may be used above a height of six and one-half (61/2) feet when incorporated with a permitted fence or wall.
2. Approved Material. All fences in residential districts shall be constructed of stone, brick, finished wood, or chain link. The finished side of the fence, or that side of the fence without exposed supports or posts, shall face the neighboring properties or streets.
3. Maintenance. Every fence or wall shall be maintained in a good and safe condition at all times. Every damaged or missing element of any fence or wall shall be repaired or replaced immediately.
B. Height. 1. Side and Rear Yards. No fence or wall located in a side or rear yard shall be of a height exceeding eight (8) feet, measured from its top edge to the ground at any point.
2. Front Yards. No fence or wall located in a front yard shall be of a height exceeding four (4) feet, measured from its top edge to the ground at any point. However, in the Industrial District, chain link security fencing may be installed at a height greater than four (4) feet provided such fencing shall not exceed eight (8) feet.
C. Setbacks. 1. A fence may be located adjacent to, but not on, a property line.
2. No fence, wall, hedge, or other screening device shall be permitted to encroach on any public right-of-way or be in violation of Section 12.71 of the Mankato Municipal Code.

 

[Zigner]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Minnesota

Hello, I came home today to see my neighbor installed a 42" tall plastic snow fence between our properties. It does not surround his yard just between our properties and is very poorly done. It is the temporarily cheap plastic green snow fence that is basically the exact same as the orange fence you see on many construction sites. The kind that is the very thin plastic with an abundance of holes throughout the fencing. It is hung with very cheap metal fencing posts and the fence was put up very amateurish as it sags badly and not at all attractive. I have lived next to this neighbor for over 6 years now and never had a problem with him but hear chatter through the "grapevine" for whatever reason he does not care for me. I pretty much keep to myself and make small talk with him and have even given him a hand when he needs mechanical work done to his vehicle or help when he was remodeling his basement as he is not even close to the handyman type and it is basically what I do for a living. I am more than happy to help the guy out throughout the years but I have noticed the last year or so he seems "put off" by me or short with me. I honestly have no idea what I would have done as I keep to myself majority of the time and have never had a problem with anyone in the area. As I said I heard through the grapevine he seems to have discussed with others in the area that he has a problem with dog poop creeping over into his yard. The thing is when I let my dogs out I am ALWAYS watching them and when they do get close to the property line I direct them towards me to finish their business. The kicker is he has a dog as well. I am not watching so I have no idea if his dog is doing his business near the property but I am sure mine are not.

So now you have what I can tell you of a background and this eye sore of a fence is in between our property. I try to find out what I could this evening online about ordinances in my city and basically got out of it if the fence is over 30" tall he needs a permit. It is at 42" and I am sure there is no permit. There has to be something about the quality or integrity of the fence. I mean this thing is an absolute eyesore that looks like a 10 year old constructed. Also it goes straight to the ground and I believe roughly a foot onto his property. So does he have to go onto my property to mow? Our ground will be frozen in a couple weeks and if this fence is illegal will they even be ale to pull the stakes? I have a plot map and My property on the side yard is 7 feet to the property line. There is a 6 foot setback and a 5 foot easement from the property line. I am not sure what all that means however. I am going to call the city tomorrow but feel I always want as much info as possible to prepare myself before I contact the city or discuss with my neighbor so I am properly educated with the conflict. So I ask you on the forum for any bit of good advice I can get from you to help me out. Thank You, also here is the link to what I can find about fencing in my city. I wish I could take a picture but it is dark out. The thing is hideous. Thanks.

http://www.mankato-mn.gov/Fence-Regulations/Page.aspx


From the ordinance

11.000 Fences.

No fence or wall shall be erected, enlarged, expanded, altered, relocated, maintained, or repaired in any yard unless it shall first meet the requirements of this Section.
A. Construction. 1. Prohibited Material. No fence or wall shall be constructed of any electrically charged element or barbed wire, except that in the Industrial Districts barbed wire may be used above a height of six and one-half (61/2) feet when incorporated with a permitted fence or wall.
2. Approved Material. All fences in residential districts shall be constructed of stone, brick, finished wood, or chain link. The finished side of the fence, or that side of the fence without exposed supports or posts, shall face the neighboring properties or streets.
3. Maintenance. Every fence or wall shall be maintained in a good and safe condition at all times. Every damaged or missing element of any fence or wall shall be repaired or replaced immediately.
B. Height. 1. Side and Rear Yards. No fence or wall located in a side or rear yard shall be of a height exceeding eight (8) feet, measured from its top edge to the ground at any point.
2. Front Yards. No fence or wall located in a front yard shall be of a height exceeding four (4) feet, measured from its top edge to the ground at any point. However, in the Industrial District, chain link security fencing may be installed at a height greater than four (4) feet provided such fencing shall not exceed eight (8) feet.
C. Setbacks. 1. A fence may be located adjacent to, but not on, a property line.
2. No fence, wall, hedge, or other screening device shall be permitted to encroach on any public right-of-way or be in violation of Section 12.71 of the Mankato Municipal Code.

Report the fence to the city.

 

[Just Blue]

Report the fence to the city.

Totally agree...

But this will not help the relationship with OP and neighbor. Such is life...

 

[justalayman]

I do not believe the ordinance stated is applicable. I highly suspect there are allowances for a SNOW fence in snowland.


It's a snow fence. It is meant to be a temporary installation.

Given this is coming on to the snow season big time, I'm not seeing the problem with installing a SNOW fence.

and the method and style of installation is exactly what one would expect when installing a temporary snow fence.

 

[Zigner]

I do not believe the ordinance stated is applicable. I highly suspect there are allowances for a SNOW fence in snowland.


It's a snow fence. It is meant to be a temporary installation.

Given this is coming on to the snow season big time, I'm not seeing the problem with installing a SNOW fence.

and the method and style of installation is exactly what one would expect when installing a temporary snow fence.

I think the OP needs to hear it from the city. That's why I recommended he report it.

 

[justalayman]

I think the OP needs to hear it from the city. That's why I recommended he report it.

No doubt and there may actually be some rules on or even against the construct. I was just trying to point out what the OP appeared to be missing:


it's a SNOW fence and in snowland they do serve a purpose...



and if installed properly (or improperly if you are on the receiving end) you can cause a ton of snow to be dumped on your neighbors driveway if it is close enough to the property line and your property is upwind of the neighbor.

 

[oachs83]

quick update

Hey guys just a mini update. I left a message with the city and waiting for a call back. I think I'm going to approach it as get as much info as I can without turning anyone in and then try to solve it between my neighbor and I. The main thing is it is such an eyesore and today is quite windy and debris is now piling along the fence line. If he is all legal then all I can do is let it lie and live with it.

Yes I am in SNOW country but a snow fence almost 4 feet tall in town is news to me. They are usually 2 or 2 and a half feet. That height wouldn't be so bad in my opinion. I did a little more digging and other cities like Minneapolis have regulations on snow face like height and time frame. Duluth which gets way more snow than me does not allow them at all. Our city online does not seem to be to clear but does say over 30" needs a permit I don't see one. Also there is no marks in the ground from calling before driving in posts. And it's made out of plastic, a material not listed as accepted in the regulations. I guess I will get some more info when I get a call. Just giving a small update, thanks.

 

[justalayman]

Hey guys just a mini update. I left a message with the city and waiting for a call back. I think I'm going to approach it as get as much info as I can without turning anyone in and then try to solve it between my neighbor and I. The main thing is it is such an eyesore and today is quite windy and debris is now piling along the fence line. If he is all legal then all I can do is let it lie and live with it.

Yes I am in SNOW country but a snow fence almost 4 feet tall in town is news to me. They are usually 2 or 2 and a half feet. That height wouldn't be so bad in my opinion. I did a little more digging and other cities like Minneapolis have regulations on snow face like height and time frame. Duluth which gets way more snow than me does not allow them at all. Our city online does not seem to be to clear but does say over 30" needs a permit I don't see one. Also there is no marks in the ground from calling before driving in posts. And it's made out of plastic, a material not listed as accepted in the regulations. I guess I will get some more info when I get a call. Just giving a small update, thanks.

what you see is a typical snow fence in my area. The taller the snow fence, the more effective it is, as far as downwind area covered.


as to the material: I suspect that plastic is going to be acceptable as a snow fence material. You generally have two options with a snow fence; the plastic one you are looking at or the really ugly rough pickets attached with twisted wire. Neither one is pretty by any stretch of the imagination but since it is considered temporary, I don't think most areas really concern themselves with the matter.

what I would be more concerned with is the placement of the fence. The purpose is to cause the snow to drop starting at the fence so an area downwind from the fence is not dumped on. If you are downwind of the fence, you need to be aware of what it may do to your property and snowfall.

and since you are such a neighborly kind of guy, you might research natural snow fence design. What a lot of people don't realize is trees that are planted along highways are there because they are a natural snow fence. If placed properly, they reduce the amount of snow falling on the roadway itself which aids in safety but saves money in snowplowing costs. Maybe a little research on your part might allow you to help your neighbor design a snowbreak from hedges, small trees, or whatever so next year he won't have to put up the ugly orange snow fence.

but thanks for the update.

 

[oachs83]

justalayman thank you for the tips. I understand that there is a purpose to the fence. The 6 going on 7 years I have lived here drifting has never been an issue other than in front of the garage doors. To throw up 135 feet worth along the whole side property in my opinion is unnecessary. Also the fence is slammed straight to the ground. The times we have to put some up for work when we start new buildings in the Winter (which is a huge pain in it's self) we always kept a good 6" gap from the ground up. Already due to the wind today the whole fence is leaning over pretty good my direction as I sit here on my lunch break. Like I said once the city calls me back with more info and if he is all legal then it is what it is and I have to live with it . If we can get the fence reduced to hit where he thinks the problem areas are (which I never have seen) and installed correctly I'm good with that as well. As of now it is one heck of an eyesore. I see your point giving me a devil's advocate side and trying to see things from the other point of view but it needs to be done properly in my opinion. Besides when we have large amounts of snow fall or our shovel piles really start pile up I usually grab a skid loader from work and clear the neighbor's in my cul de sac's driveways or scoop the built up shovel piles and transfer over to where the city piles up. Snow piling up has not been much of an issue for us. Thanks

 

[justalayman]

it is actually designed to induce drifting. It does that so the air is bereft from snow the designed distance from the fence. This results in less snow being deposited in the target area but it will build (due to that drifting action) nearer to the fence.

and you want the fence to go all the way to the ground so you do not allow airflow under the fence. That reduces the efficacy of the fence. The more solid the fence line, the more effective it will be. The intent is to create a dead air space immediately after the fence so the snow drops out of the air. It you allow the air to go under the fence, it creates turbulence and that causes the snow to be carried along with the wind.

It does sound like it may not be all that beneficial to the situation. Maybe it is in response to the poop fight. Who knows? Go invite him for a beer and talk it over. It's a lot better living next to somebody you can communicate with when there is an issue than one who turns their back and maybe even puts up an ugly snow fence just to spite the neighbor.

 

[oachs83]

and you want the fence to go all the way to the ground so you do not allow airflow under the fence. That reduces the efficacy of the fence.

Thanks again on the input as I take in any advice. This is the only thing that I may disagree with as I have always been told to keep it 6" from the ground. Now I have only been instructed one way and there is more ways to skin a cat and who knows maybe the company I work for has been doing it wrong? Doing a quick Google search of "snow fence instulation" out of curiosity a few sites all recommend at least 5" off the ground http://www.us-fence.com/snow-fence-installation-instructions.html this link is one of a few. Apparently if the fence is off the ground a bit the drift will start away from the fence to prevent drifts from burying the fence. The higher the gap off the ground the farther the drift will accumulate from the fence. I was not aware that is why the fence is raised but I guess it makes sense. Maybe we both learned something?

 

[FarmerJ]

If it was not for the pines and few oaks and all the scrubby type growth and what must be a 75+ yr old line of lilacs ( since they are as big as the ones that have survived along highway 100 down in the cities ) that makes a nice wind break Ive wondered how deep it might get here by the house and how much worse the driveway would be LOL , many up here had already put up snow fences (north of the twin cites) but since its a snow fence I too am having a hard time imagining a city that would ban or regulate them since they are temporary.

 

[oachs83]

but since its a snow fence I too am having a hard time imagining a city that would ban or regulate them since they are temporary.

Actually Duluth does not allow snow fence as I just found out while trying to find out about my city. Another thing I failed to mention is that the majority of the fence runs between our houses. The wind coming from North and South will be blocked due to the houses and the wind can only come through dead East and West. The fence runs East and West so the snow can only run parallel with the fence. Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of a snow fence as it is not blocking cross wind? My main complaint is the way it looks as it is not put up properly at all. It sags real bad, the posts used are so cheap it is already at a 45 degree angle into my yard and half of it is unnecessary as he ran it in a wide open span of about 50 feet in the middle of nowhere in our back yards. Also never had any problem with drifting in the past.