Neighbors accessing county park through backyard

[newtomd10]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? MD

I recently moved into an end-unit townhouse that backs up to a county park/forest. Apparently the current residents of the community had built a path to meet up with the walking path already in the park when they moved in (approximately 3-4 years ago). This was impossible to see when I picked out my plat as I selected it in May and prior to the houses on my side of the street being built this was a field full of high weeds that people waded through to get to the path. When the builders cleared the land to build my group and the neighboring group of houses, they made this path more apparent to others and now people are using it non-stop. They are also utilizing the park at times when it is legally closed. There is a 10 ft ease-of-access between my house and my non-attached neighbors house but people choose to use my backyard as a shortcut rather than walk along the ease-of-access. I decided I would assume the expense myself and build a 6' privacy fence around my land that requires HOA approval. However, when I called the community manager she states they are now only allowing 4' picket style fences. There are several other houses in the community that do have the privacy fence so I am not sure why this is now not allowed. Also, I was told I may not be able to build the fence all around my plat but possibly only 10-15' back (my plat goes 33' back from my house and even with that would leave at least 12' for people to walk behind to get to the park). I specifically wanted the privacy fence as I constantly have to see people walk from the side of my house, across my back lawn and into the woods or out of it. I have had a few people assume that this is common area, which it is not, and remain conversing on my property (outside of the woods) early in the morning while I am trying to sleep. I also have had a problem with litter as well. What are my options? The only suggestion the sheriff's department would give me was to build a fence and place no trespassing signs but I feel a 4' fence could be easily hopped if someone chose to do so.

 

[justalayman]

what type of fence and if you are allowed a fence would be controlled by the CC&R's. Investigate all rules thoroughly and then realize that there is often no way around the board refusing to permit some such build. You won't know that until you have thoroughly investigated all associated rules though.


depending on the time of existence of the pathway, there may be a claim for a prescriptive easement. If they wish to make such a claim, they would have to take legal action against some means you utilize to prevent their use. I wouldn't worry too much about that at the moment.


to people using the park after legal hours. Call the police and make a report. I wouldn't expect this to be on their "do it immediately" list though and too many reports will likely be seen as you being a nuisance and could result in being ignored.

If people trespass on your property, check into any requirement to post the property and do so, if allowed by your HOA. Then, if people trespass, call the police and report it. Again, there is a fine line between a person filing valid complaints and a nuisance (even though you have a legal right to seek action).

If an adequate fence is not allowed, what about plantings? A hedge can be as limiting as a fence and usually much less restriction on height.

 

[newtomd10]

Agreed with the calling the police being a nuisance. I would constantly be on the phone with them. People gp through my yard anywhere from 7am in the morning to 2am at night (the park closes as 7pm). I was offered the option of the sign but quite honestly, I know that will do nothing. I figured putting up a fence makes me less of a "bad neighbor" and just defines the boundaries. All it will force people to do is walk along the easement path to the walking path they made. My intention is not to stop them, but rather insure my privacy. I also don't know the liability laws in MD and am afraid if somebody gets hurt on my property I could be liable as well. It may come to getting the fence built per their requirements and then placing hedges either inside or outside of them. The CC&Rs for my condo association do not state (in writing) that I can only place it back 10'. The CC&Rs for another association within my association have a reference to that fence (they are association 2), however, in my association documents (association 3) and in Association 1's documents, no such description exists. Do I have a recourse due to this?

Also, a prescriptive easement is after 20 years I believe? This path has existed for at most 4 years. And there are other paths into the park around the neighborhood including one that the master association placed in with a gravel path and trees lining it. The people who access the path by my house are local neighbors who apparently are too lazy (?) to walk around the corner of our street to access the other path.

 

[justalayman]

sounds like prescriptive easement wouldn't be a concern.

The CC&Rs for my condo association do not state (in writing) that I can only place it back 10'. The CC&Rs for another association within my association have a reference to that fence (they are association 2), however, in my association documents (association 3)

Huh? You are under the rules of 3 HOA's?

. I was offered the option of the sign but quite honestly, I know that will do nothing.

I haven't looked but in some states, unless a person is notified they are trespassing, they aren't.

sometimes simply delineating your property with something such as the 4' fence is enough to stop people from trespassing. It would seem that if they are too lazy to take a little bit longer walk, they would assuredly be too lazy to climb over a 4' fence.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

The OP really has two issues:
1. privacy expectation
2. selective enforcements of the CR&Rs in reference to the fence.

Why not ask the folks who got the privacy fences what they did to get it.

 

[newtomd10]

sounds like prescriptive easement wouldn't be a concern.


Huh? You are under the rules of 3 HOA's?



One master association - three subassociations. The master association rules over all three subassociations. I am in subassociation 3. There are two other subassociations. So, in essence, I am under the master and Sub 3. What I was trying to state is that only Sub 2 has a CC&R that stated a certain type of fence and I have even seen the 6' privacy fence erected within that association. I have been through all the master and Sub 3 documents and cannot find anything stating a limitation on the size of the fence or placement (other than on my plat). The only thing I could find at all was a blanket statement stating the subassociation committee can deny any additions, modifications, etc... unless legally obligated to allow it (i.e. for handicap access).

 

[newtomd10]

The OP really has two issues:
1. privacy expectation
2. selective enforcements of the CR&Rs in reference to the fence.

Why not ask the folks who got the privacy fences what they did to get it.

Great suggestion, if I am denied the ability to build a privacy fence, I plan to. And yes, privacy expectation is a major issue. I have lived in an HOA townhouse community before but never had this problem. The neighbors state everybody walks over each others property and nobody has a problem except these are the 3-4 year old owners who live across the street and people may walk over their property for a minute but don't remain on it nor do they have people constantly treking over their yard to and from a park.

 

[justalayman]

Great suggestion, if I am denied the ability to build a privacy fence, I plan to. And yes, privacy expectation is a major issue. I have lived in an HOA townhouse community before but never had this problem. The neighbors state everybody walks over each others property and nobody has a problem except these are the 3-4 year old owners who live across the street and people may walk over their property for a minute but don't remain on it nor do they have people constantly treking over their yard to and from a park.

as to HOA rules; the rules that apply to you are what is relevant. If the master and #3 apply, then the rules of #2 are irrelevant. You also cannot use what happens in sub #2 as an argument for you either as those rules do not apply to you. If these tall fences are in another sub, unless it is a rule within the master documents that is being applied to limit your right to any given fence, it is of no help to you.

expectation of privacy is very difficult to define. In your situation, with no physical elements to guard you either from outside view or direct intrusion, it becomes a problem to claim a right to privacy in a completely open area. The direct intrusion can be addressed by enforcing your rights of ownership. To do that, the others must be made aware of the property lines in an unambiguous manner and your intent to prevent such physical intrusion. That is where the fence comes into play. Failing such clear indications, there will always be somebody that argues "well, nobody told me..."

 

[newtomd10]

as to HOA rules; the rules that apply to you are what is relevant. If the master and #3 apply, then the rules of #2 are irrelevant. You also cannot use what happens in sub #2 as an argument for you either as those rules do not apply to you. If these tall fences are in another sub, unless it is a rule within the master documents that is being applied to limit your right to any given fence, it is of no help to you.

That's the issue - we have no clearly defined rule other than the sub can decide on what they want or not. It is clearly defined for sub 2 and even then there were exceptions. I guess my legal question is how can you impose a restriction on me when it was never spelled out in a CC&R and therefore is completely subjective.

My problem (and it hasn't even gone to committee yet) is that it is only the older owners that are on the committee. They have treated all the new residents rudely (I just have the added bonus of the path). Nothing illegal but their builder never gave them parking spaces so they constantly take up spaces in front of our houses or use our driveways to turn around in (the street is plenty wide). My neighbor down the block has also had to call the police on their across-the-street neighbor because they have a movable basketball court and the neighborhood kids are constantly running on their property. I know they were denied a fence for their front yard for aesthetic purposes but I have the sneaking suspicion anything that inconveniences the older neighbors from continuing their status quo will be denied. I probably should have included this with the first post.

I plan to get a fence one way or another so there will be a property border, however, a privacy fence would be best giving me some expectation of privacy but I need to know how to argue that. And also, if I am denied (so these people don't have to walk an extra 10'), if I have grounds to fight the association legally.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

hedges might do the trick, but will most likely require HOA approval. Also consider whether lighting that turns on with movement might deter the folks also.

 

[justalayman]

as I said in the first response; sometimes you will find that there is no way around an imposition of an arbitrary rule. You need to search your CC&R's to determine if the limitation imposed can be sustained based on the rules.


ever see those sprinklers that have a motion sensor incorporated in them to deter dogs from entering your property?

They work on people too. Just make sure the spray doesn't go outside of your yard.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

as I said in the first response; sometimes you will find that there is no way around an imposition of an arbitrary rule. You need to search your CC&R's to determine if the limitation imposed can be sustained based on the rules.


ever see those sprinklers that have a motion sensor incorporated in them to deter dogs from entering your property?

They work on people too. Just make sure the spray doesn't go outside of your yard.

I could see folks running while getting wet. THAT would be funny.

 

[newtomd10]

as I said in the first response; sometimes you will find that there is no way around an imposition of an arbitrary rule. You need to search your CC&R's to determine if the limitation imposed can be sustained based on the rules.


ever see those sprinklers that have a motion sensor incorporated in them to deter dogs from entering your property?

They work on people too. Just make sure the spray doesn't go outside of your yard.

Great idea but unfortunately, I think the sprinkler system is in our CC&R so of course, I have problems yet again.

 

[sally1]

I would install a fence and/or plant some stinging nettle. If they made me remove those things I would move.We lived in a condo once.Will never make that mistake again. Best wishes!