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neighbor's vines and our property

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BelizeBreeze

Senior Member
fudge said:
Gosh you guys, I sure appreciate the comments and input but I think the only person who TOTALLY "gets" the situation is Ms. Magoo. :)

The vines, for all practical purposes, are planted in our neighbor's yard. Some could be on the property line or within those "inches" we still own on their side but to just simplify this situation, let's just say that all of the vines are in the neighbor's dirt.

We have, FOR YEARS, been dealing with these vines growing ON OUR FENCE as well as INTO OUR YARD.

The vines are DAMAGING our fence. They are damaging both sides of the fence, not just the side that faces our neighbor.

As for the vines that are growing thru the fence and under the fence and over the fence, those vines are taking over OUR YARD and OUR LANDSCAPING (meaning our trees and grass).

This is a neighbor who plants things, but then doesn't seem to have the time to CONTAIN and MAINTAIN what she's planted. Is it fair that we have to clear her vines off of our fence and out of our yard? If they had a dog, and it kept using our yard as a bathroom, would it be fair that we have to clean up after their dog and also repair our grass?

There are 2 reasons we've had enough. One, the damage to our fence is extensive and two, we can't keep doing her work for her summer after summer after summer. My husband recently had surgery and can't do it anymore, and I also can't do it due to health reasons so where does that leave us? Are we now supposed to pay to have someone do it for us? I don't get that logic.

Maybe if everyone pretended the object (property) being covered and damaged by vines was the side of our house they would understand the situation better?

And to BelizeBreeze, would you honestly put up with this same situation on your fence and in your yard? Would you honestly spend HOURS and HOURS of your time to clear these vines not to mention bundle them and haul them to the curb for pick-up? I think you'd tire of it after one summer. And don't forget that your fence is getting damaged and you're the one who paid a lot of money to put the fence up.

Thanks to all of you that stop by and leave comments ~ It all helps us try to figure out what to do. And P.S. to Ralph31 ~ Your bamboo situation sounds just awful! Makes me almost think my neighbors aren't such jerks afterall. Good luck to you! Sincerely, "fudge"
If you want to agree with this idiot magoo then you get no further help from me.

Now you decide. Because she has absolutly no legal basis for her OPINION.
 


nomad943

Junior Member
This topic kind of fascinates me because I have dealt off and on with a similar situation. In my case the vine was POISON IVY ... ughh... I wont go into the details but fortunatly for me I was free to walk both sides of the fence.
However I am wondering what happens in cases of invasive species.
In this part of America there has been a real outbreak of JAPANESE KNOTWEED. A stand of knotweed on the neighbors lot is repeatedly trimmed back to the property line but only grows back immedietly. The root system (rhizomes) of this plant are what sustains it, and are said to grow 10+ feet underground from the existing plant thus enabling the plant to move about in leaps and bounds. Does a neighbor with a crop of such an invasive species have an obligation to deal with it or do I have a right to foot the bill to deal with it myself if the neighbor prefers video games?
nomad in Mass.
 

fudge

Junior Member
That's Fine By Me BelizeBreeze

To anyone who has taken the time to read my post(s) about our neighbor's vines taking over our yard and our fence (and causing damage to our fence), thank you so much and thank you also to those who have offered (civil) advice.

As for you BelizeBreeze, I would be thrilled if you stayed away and offered no other "advice" as you call it. I find your posts rude and quite mean ~ to call Ms. Magoo an idiot, just because her opinion differs from yours, is just plain uncalled for and the same goes for some of your other language. There's no reason to be so caustic ~ heck, if anyone should be writing in such a way it's me, the one who is living with this dang situation! And no, I'm no prude but I do find your entire attitude something I'd just as soon stay away from and I hope, as you "threaten", you stay away and stop offering me your "help".

Thanks again to the rest of you ~ even if none of you has a legal bone in your body, I appreciate either hearing your opinion or your own story about neighbors.

Sincerely,
"fudge"
 

ralph31

Member
One person, one vote, who cares?

My point is:

You can't burn leaves on your property as lots of voters will be affected.

You can't dig up your lawn too much if a little dirty water may flow elsewhere.

You can't spill, or disperse lots of things onto your property as it might leach
someday in the future and affect voters unknown.

You can't make loud noises in the evening as you might disturb more than one
voter.

In other words, your property rights can be overlooked by those politicians that create the laws because it's a vote toss up, yours or the neighbors.
 

BelizeBreeze

Senior Member
ralph31 said:
My point is:

You can't burn leaves on your property as lots of voters will be affected.

You can't dig up your lawn too much if a little dirty water may flow elsewhere.

You can't spill, or disperse lots of things onto your property as it might leach
someday in the future and affect voters unknown.

You can't make loud noises in the evening as you might disturb more than one
voter.

In other words, your property rights can be overlooked by those politicians that create the laws because it's a vote toss up, yours or the neighbors.
and since you have joined the parade of idiots on this post, you tell me what the difference is between those situations and the poster's situation.
 

ralph31

Member
Politicians create laws to garner votes.

Since Beelzeebub states there are no laws to protect a property owner where a neighbor has created a nuisance by planting a crop that reaks havoc when it spreads to adjacent property, then maybe the politicians should create laws that would protect a property owner from the havoc created by thoughtless neighbors.

My post stated that there were many laws on the books that do not allow certain acts on one's property, then why not laws that forbid the planting of
nefarious plant life such as vines and bamboo without barriers for the prevention of spread.

As I stated, the politicians create laws to garner votes. Vines and bamboo spread to only one property. Smoke, noise, etc. spreads to many property owners. The politician doesn't gain a vote by settling a dispute in a one on one situation.
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
OP's neighbor originally asked for permission to plant the vines and was given permission and now regrets it because their health status has changed. The vines are not trespassing and are planted for the most part on the neighbor's property, OP still won't say what type of vines they are. There is little that can be done other than to trim the vines on their side of the property or take the fence down, dig along the fence line and install a solid barrier.
 

fudge

Junior Member
trying to clarify

Hi,

Ralph31, you state a great opinion about laws. Makes some sense. (Also love your new name for BBreeze.) :)

Rmet4nzkx, your post is quite interesting. Geez, I think you've made me madder than that BelizeBreeze guy! ;) I'll try to clarify things for you:

First off, we don't regret anything because our health status has changed, as you state. I only just recently added that additional bit of information to point out that we have additional reasons that we can't take care of their vines for them. We first asked them to take the vines off of our fence BEFORE we even knew that my husband would be having surgery and so his health had nothing to do with our "changing our minds". And fyi, my health status hasn't changed; I've never been able to help my husband remove these vines.

Yes, we gave these ding dongs permission to grow the vines on the fence years ago when the fence was first installed, but as we know from talking to someone who is "in the know" about such things, you are allowed to revoke permission about such things should you want to.

I somehow get the impression that now you think that since we once gave them permission, they somehow can still do this to our fence. Keep in mind that when we gave the original permission, we never, in a million years, dreamt what was going to happen. We only said yes to their request to be "neighborly". If you can imagine vines along 40 feet of fence, left unattended to just take over - on the sides, over the top, through the boards, under the fence.....It became an unbelieveable jungle! It wasn't until we noticed the DAMAGE TO OUR FENCE that we realized that gee, this wasn't a good situation and then SECONDARY to that was again, all the work my husband has had to do to clear these things out of our yard (meaning off the fence on our side, out of our trees, out of our grass) for years and years.

As for your comment that I "still won't" say what type of vines they are. I DIDN'T PLANT THEM and I'm not a "gardener" by any means, and so I DON'T KNOW! It really shouldn't matter anyway! But for what its worth, I did try to do some research on one of the vines that has huge, orange, trumpet flowers, and I think it's some awful vine that everywhere I looked online it was stated that it is aggressive and will infiltrate everywhere and needs CONSTANT work. But then any research I've done on vines states that they can "take over" and damage property. I remember reading one "story" where vines were getting into someone's basement foundation walls.

And as for your "solution" of taking the fence down, digging along the fence line and installing a solid barrier - THAT WOULDN'T WORK ANYWAY. These things are not growing underground and then popping up in our yard. If you meant to dig DEEP down as if we're trying to keep an animal from digging under the fence and into the yard, that won't work with vines. They aren't coming into our yard that way. The "solid barrier" (do you mean a new fence?) would have to be as high as the sky, seeing how vines will keep growing and growing no matter how tall something is!

And so to summarize, again:

Yes we said yes at one time to their growing the vines on our fence but we took that yes away and so now they do not have permission to grow or attach ANYTHING to our fence. This point of our story now becomes moot.

Yes the vines are most likely planted in their dirt, but yet maybe some are a bit in our dirt. We aren't as concerned about this. It's that the vines aren't contained to their yard once they start to grow for a while. Maybe we will have to pay for a current survey and then dig up any vines that ARE in our dirt. When our fence was installed, the property markers were still visible on both ends of our property but we suspect that they took one, as they did on the other side of their property where they also had problems with those neighbors, and so we would have to get a survey now. (We were hoping to avoid having to pay anything to resolve this though - as it is we have repairs we have to make, and pay for, with our fence.)

Our fence is DAMAGED. That is the MAIN reason we can't continue to have these vines growing on our fence! That is the MAIN reason we told them "no more vines". And another concern I haven't mentioned, because it seems the more I say the more confused everyone gets, is that we would like to stain our fence and with it covered with their vines, we can't!

To clean up their vines on our side of the fence for all of these years has been a HORRENDOUS job!!!! That is our SECONDARY reason for wanting the vines off our fence. We don't care if they want vines IN THEIR YARD, but we care that they take over our fence and yard.

If I may ask, in regards to tresspassing, and in regards to a couple of different posts: If your neighbor has a dog, and that dog, of its own free desire, wanders into your yard, is that not trespassing? The neighbor didn't put the dog in your yard, and so the neighbor didn't have a "hand" in the dog getting in your yard. The dog also damages your siding on your house. Is that not property damage done by a trespassing dog? Just curious how you feel about that because in our opinion, the vines ARE trespassing and on top of that, they are DAMAGING our property. Pretend I never said anything about the work involved with cleaning up vines. Just remember that our (expensive) fence continues to be damaged.

And to anyone who's told us to "just" cut the vines back to our property line....that still doesn't get the vines off of our fence on THEIR side.

Thanks to all of you for the posts, sorry for the long post right now, and gee, I think I'm grumpy today - sorry! :rolleyes: Sincerely, "fudge"
 

BelizeBreeze

Senior Member
fudge said:
Hi,
And to anyone who's told us to "just" cut the vines back to our property line....that still doesn't get the vines off of our fence on THEIR side.
And none of what you have posted here changes your legal rights on YOUR land. If the vines are planted on THEIR side of the property line then you can't touch them. ANY PORTION of the vines on your side of the fence you can cut to your heart's content.

And that is the ONLY valid legal answer you need because nothing else matters. Now, take your issues to a local attorney and pay anywhere from $200 to 400 to get the same opinion.

Because that's it. PERIOD!
 

fudge

Junior Member
Get Lost Belize Breeze

Belize Breeze,

You said you wouldn't be back, and I also asked you not to come back, so get lost! I think you are a rude and mean-spirited person and whether you do or don't know the law, I don't care!

I never expected to find the kind of jerk-type behaviour that I'm finding here at this web site and forum. I expected civil comments, various opinions and suggestions but reading what you've written about people on my thread, as well as another thread I glanced at today, I think you need to find something else to do with your time than to pick on people, personally, versus just their opinions, because you disagree with what they've written.

As for your last comment to me: "If the vines are planted on THEIR side of the property line then you can't touch them."

Try reading things more carefully, as you advise so many others to do! I wrote: "...that still doesn't get the vines off of our fence on THEIR side."

I have NEVER said I was going to do anything to their vines on THEIR property.

I have continually stated that the vines are growing ON OUR FENCE. And in my last statement, copied above, I'm saying that the vines are ON our fence, on THEIR side.

Yes, we've removed vines (over the years) from OUR side of OUR fence. But doing that and also cutting them back to the property line still doesn't resolve the issue of the vines continuing to grow ON OUR FENCE but on THEIR side.

THEY DO NOT OWN THIS FENCE. THIS FENCE IS ON OUR PROPERTY BY MANY INCHES. THE VINES ARE ON OUR FENCE, ON BOTH SIDES OF THE BOARDS.

Now do you "get it"?

I'll at least give you credit for being "civil" in your latest post to me. You kept the "idiot" and "ass" and every other kind word to yourself this time.

Do me a favor. I get your opinion. You act as if you're some kind of attorney. Well, if you are one, you're not my kind of attorney. I'd still like to hear others' opinions. So please just leave my thread alone. I've heard you and I've had enough of you. Go get your kicks at someone else's thread. "fudge"
 

BelizeBreeze

Senior Member
fudge said:
Belize Breeze,

You said you wouldn't be back, and I also asked you not to come back, so get lost! I think you are a rude and mean-spirited person and whether you do or don't know the law, I don't care!

I never expected to find the kind of jerk-type behaviour that I'm finding here at this web site and forum. I expected civil comments, various opinions and suggestions but reading what you've written about people on my thread, as well as another thread I glanced at today, I think you need to find something else to do with your time than to pick on people, personally, versus just their opinions, because you disagree with what they've written.

As for your last comment to me: "If the vines are planted on THEIR side of the property line then you can't touch them."

Try reading things more carefully, as you advise so many others to do! I wrote: "...that still doesn't get the vines off of our fence on THEIR side."

I have NEVER said I was going to do anything to their vines on THEIR property.

I have continually stated that the vines are growing ON OUR FENCE. And in my last statement, copied above, I'm saying that the vines are ON our fence, on THEIR side.

Yes, we've removed vines (over the years) from OUR side of OUR fence. But doing that and also cutting them back to the property line still doesn't resolve the issue of the vines continuing to grow ON OUR FENCE but on THEIR side.

THEY DO NOT OWN THIS FENCE. THIS FENCE IS ON OUR PROPERTY BY MANY INCHES. THE VINES ARE ON OUR FENCE, ON BOTH SIDES OF THE BOARDS.

Now do you "get it"?

I'll at least give you credit for being "civil" in your latest post to me. You kept the "idiot" and "ass" and every other kind word to yourself this time.

Do me a favor. I get your opinion. You act as if you're some kind of attorney. Well, if you are one, you're not my kind of attorney. I'd still like to hear others' opinions. So please just leave my thread alone. I've heard you and I've had enough of you. Go get your kicks at someone else's thread. "fudge"
What a frikkin' idiot. I guess coming to a legal advice site and getting valid legal advice doesn't that you, as you put it "...don't care!"

And I won't be leaving anytime soon. So, unless you feel like leaving and taking your juvenille issue to an attorney in your city and paying the fees to receive the same advice you have receive here for free, then your threats don't mean much.

After all, you don't have to accept my legally valid point. In fact, you can crawl your fat butt over the fence and cut anything you want. As long as you don't mind going to jail for destruction of private property.

It's your choice. :D
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
Ok, It is clear you don't understand real estate law and fence and property line issues, or at least you are not likeing what you are being told.
You can cut what ever is on your side of the property line, yo cannot make them remove their vines.

Since you don't know what they are and have not bothered to take a leaf and flower to the nusery to have them identified, I can't help you specifically, but since they don't spread by roots you are lucky! Simply replace your fence they don't last forever anyway. Dig a trench down 2-3 feet up to the property line removibg all the soil and roots, so frost isn't a problem, fill this with "con Mix" this will take approximately 5-6 cubic yards or one standard dump truck of con mix to fill the treach to make a footing that allows drainage and for soil movement during your harsh MN winters, don't worry, you can easily move this yourself, I moved a similar amount when I was 9 mos pregnant in 100 degree weather. Then install a cinderblock fence up to the property line 6-8 feet high, install a 2" copper barrier on the top, this will solve your problem. I would have a contractor install the fence, be sure to get building permits. More than likely, this will kill off the vines.

Look up the infamous Kudzu vine that covers the south, it won't grow in MN, now that's a vine to contend with! It can grow 60' in a year ans 1' a day in the summer!

Kudzu's History:
Up and Down the Power Pole

Kudzu was introduced to the United States in 1876 at the Centennial Exposition in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Countries were invited to build exhibits to celebrate the 100th birthday of the U.S. The Japanese government constructed a beautiful garden filled with plants from their country. The large leaves and sweet-smelling blooms of kudzu captured the imagination of American gardeners who used the plant for ornamental purposes.

Florida nursery operators, Charles and Lillie Pleas, discovered that animals would eat the plant and promoted its use for forage in the 1920s. Their Glen Arden Nursery in Chipley sold kudzu plants through the mail. A historical marker there proudly proclaims "Kudzu Developed Here."

During the Great Depression of the 1930s, the Soil Conservation Service promoted kudzu for erosion control. Hundreds of young men were given work planting kudzu through the Civilian Conservation Corps. Farmers were paid as much as eight dollars an acre as incentive to plant fields of the vines in the 1940s.

http://www.cptr.ua.edu/kudzu/
"Cotton isn't king in the South anymore.
Kudzu is king!"
Channing Cope

Kudzu's most vocal advocate was Channing Cope of Covington, Georgia who promoted use of the vine to control erosion. Cope wrote about kudzu in articles for the Atlanta Journal-Constitution and talked about its virtues frequently on his daily WSB-AM radio program broadcast from his front porch. During the 1940s, he traveled across the southeast starting Kudzu Clubs to honor what he called "the miracle vine."

Cope was very disappointed when the U.S. government stopped advocating the use of kudzu in 1953.

Kudzu Control:
An Impossible Dream?

The problem is that it just grows too well! The climate of the Southeastern U.S. is perfect for kudzu. The vines grow as much as a foot per day during summer months, climbing trees, power poles, and anything else they contact. Under ideal conditions kudzu vines can grow sixty feet each year.

While they help prevent erosion, the vines can also destroy valuable forests by preventing trees from getting sunlight. This problem led Dr. James H. Miller of the U.S. Forest Service in Auburn, Alabama to research methods for killing kudzu. In eighteen years of research, he has found that one herbicide actually makes kudzu grow better while many have little effect. Miller recommends repeated herbicide treatments for at least four years, but some kudzu plants may take as long as ten years to kill, even with the most effective herbicides.


The USDA declared kudzu to be a weed in 1972!

Dr. Errol G. Rhoden, along with other researchers at Tuskegee University, has successfully raised Angora goats in fields of kudzu which would otherwise be considered wasted land. The goats keep the kudzu from spreading further while producing profitable milk and wool products. Rhoden says constant grazing will eventually eradicate kudzu. If kudzu is to provide a continuing food source, animals must be removed from the fields occasionally to allow the vines time to grow.

Uses for Kudzu:
It's here. It's free... Why not?

Basket makers have found that the rubber-like vines are excellent for decorative and functional creations. Ruth Duncan of Greenville, Alabama makes over 200 kudzu baskets each year and says she doesn't mind that people call her the "Queen of Kudzu."

Regina Hines of Ball Ground, Georgia, has developed unique basket styles which incorporate curled kudzu vines. She weaves with other vines as well, but says that kudzu is the most versatile.

Nancy Basket of Walhalla, South Carolina, makes paper from kudzu which she uses in colorful collages. Her designs vary from geometric shapes to images of rural life and Native American themes.

Diane Hoots of Dahlonega, Georgia has developed a company to market her kudzu products which include kudzu blossom jelly and syrup, kudzu baskets, and books. Her book, Kudzu: The Vine to Love or Hate, co-written with Juanita Baldwin, is an in-depth study of the South's love/hate relationship with the vine. The book includes recipes and basket making instructions.

Henry and Edith Edwards of Rutherfordton, North Carolina have found many uses for kudzu over the past 30 years. Henry produces over 1,000 bales of kudzu hay each year on his Kudzu Cow Farm. The hay is high in nutritive value, but many people have found kudzu difficult to cut and bale. Henry says the secret is to "cut it low and bale it high."

Edith Edwards makes deep-fried kudzu leaves, kudzu quiche, and many other kudzu dishes. She found recipes in The Book of Kudzu: A Culinary and Healing Guide by William Shurtleff and Akiko Aoyagi, and thought this was a good use for a plentiful resource. She has demonstrated kudzu cooking for clubs, schools, and visitors to the Knoxville World's Fair.


Common names for kudzu include:
mile-a-minute vine,
foot-a-night vine,
and the vine that ate the South.

Current research may lead to new medicines made from kudzu, but for now only hamsters and mice can benefit from these drugs. Research with laboratory animals at Harvard Medical School has revealed that a drug extracted from kudzu root may help in the treatment of alcoholism. The drug is based on a 2,000 year old Chinese herbal medicine. Several years of testing may be required before the drug can be made available for human consumption.

In China and Japan, ground kudzu root (called kuzu) has been a common ingredient in foods and medications for centuries. Kudzu is respected and enjoyed there. It's far more versatile than say, turnips. But kudzu grows better in the South than it does in its native lands. Its natural insect enemies were not brought to the U.S. with it.

That's why visitors to the South are sometimes awe-struck by scenic vistas which reveal miles and miles of seemingly endless vines.

Southerners just close their windows at night to keep the kudzu out.
 

nextwife

Senior Member
State DNR and gardeners websites are easy sources of information about what plants, shrubs and vines are "invasive" in your area and which are "well-behaved" (clematis is a wonderful, well behaved vine of which I have 12 varieties in my garden, growing without damage up various trellis and other supports throughout the yard). PRIOR to giving a blanket authorization to plant a "vine" of unknown type and variety, you COULD have done a few minutes (or days) of simple research to determine the wisdom of allowing a PARTICULAR type of vine to be planted on your fence.

Even here up north, in zone 5/4, there are STILL problematic vines that many gardeners who know better would never unleash into their yards. English Ivy and Japanese Honeysuckle are but two examples. And, yes, an underground barrier IS helpful in keeping their runners from popping up in your yard and starting a whole new plant. One CAN even enjoy Honeysuckle vines with no risk- if they grow them in large containers, which is how I enjoy certain potential invasives such as bamboo and creeping jenny.

As stated, dig up anything that comes up in your yard. You can even use Round Up or VineX on the new plantlets within YOUR yard.
 

ms.magoo

Member
neighbour's vines an our property

Hi again Fudge. I think at this point in time, with all the rudeness you an I have recieved, by some of the others in this site, that it would be a wise thing to call up a few REAL LAWYERS. Get their real legal opinions on the problem vines an get back to us again. I'd love to hear what the REAL LAWYERS have to say on this matter. I think it would enlighten all of us, an bring some kind of closure on the rudeness that is going on in your posted question. Hope to hear some civil an legal news from you soon !!! Good luck !!! :)
 

Not_Me

Junior Member
Clearing up this old Post

Belize was exactly right from a legal point of view, which Magoo and other posters in this thread don't seem to grasp. One thing is to negotiate with your neighbor regarding plant and tree encroachment and play on your initial 'kindness' to "give permission" and see if that good will buys back a mutually useful response from your neighbor. But when the OP gave permission for the neighbor to physically train his vines up on the fence, that was a one time deal. As Belize comments, the vines did the rest. Most or all states consider vegetation growth acts of nature. Unless you can prove explicit bad faith on the part of the neighbor to deceive you and do harm, or the vegetation is sick and presents a clear and present hazard due to the sickness (like a rotten overhanging limb), what nature does; nature is responsible and we are responsible for the results of nature on our property regardless of who planted what. The other objections about the neighbors hands, etc., or acts of humans damaging cars and such have no relevance when it comes to nature. Your responsibility and your home insurance under law are responsible for your property. On the bright side, as Belize commented, you can remove all the vines off your property which includes the fence. Let your neighbor know beforehand though and in the nicest way. It doesn't feel right, but that is the neighborly thing to do, and acting in a straightforward matter goes a long way in preventing severe troubles between neighbors which includes unfettered pre-emptive communication in a real way. In the end, you made your mistake and you recognize it - in giving your neighbor the green light. Since part is in your yard including the fence you can change your mind, but it sounds like it is not controllable in that there is enough mass on his side which the fence helped create, in that now the monster vine and its spawn has a life of its own on both sides no matter what you do. From your neighbor's point of view, the fence is an eyesore and boxes his landscaping, so you must respect his right not to like it and unfortunately that basically gives hime the right to act exactly as he is. So at this point, the best approach is to act friendly no matter how hard, and let him know the real problems created and all you need to do. Maybe he just wants you to take the fence down and feels a good compromise is remove fence = effort to erradicate vines becomes serious. The same right you had to block his view with a fence gave him the right to plant vines on his own property tohide the fence. Never give neighbors, no matter how friendly any permission to do anything at all on your property. But you know this now. People change, temperments change and landscaping decisions get twisted in all kinds of ways ... so we must all vigourously defend our sole & exclusive right to do anything on our own property, no matter how nice anyone asks. Pity, life in a commune= neighborhood. Could be worse, you could be dealing with an unfriendly condo association!
 

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