Property Line dispute now

[Looking4anout]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?Washington State
A neighbor behind me has mentioned he wanted to rebuild his fence and at the same time increase the height of his retaining wall from 2 to 4 feet. I showed him the property line markers that his builder placed and then the ones my builder placed two years later. They are all in alignment with each other and agreement with the recorded survey's. I have verified that no permits are required for this work.
I have landscaping just inches inside my side of the line including a barrier to prevent my Bamboo from escaping.
He decided to have a survey done anyways, and the new survey has his line 6-12 inches inside my property line.
He has asked via email that I remove my landscaping form his property so they can start construction.
I responded that he needs to sort out the discrepancy before anything more is done on his project and that the original recorded survey and marker boundaries are the correct ones.
Without hiring a lawyer, how do I proceed if he decides to push the issue? Assume he is not hiring a lawyer either.
What avenues should I pursue that won't cost me a fortune?
What can I do if they start working and cross the original line onto my property?

 

[justalayman]

You get a copy of the recorded survey and tell the neighbor they need to have their surveyor review the conflict and work to resolve the conflict. If a permit is needed for the work I would be sure to give the building department notice that there is a discrepancy and per the survey on file with the state they cannot issue a permit for the neighbor to build in the proposed location.

If the neighbor starts building contact the building department seeking they issue a stop work order. If they refuse your only option is to head to court seeking an injunction ordering them to stop the work.

 

[154NH773]

Get your own survey from a different surveyor,

 

[154NH773]

(Sorry, couldn't edit last comment from iPhone)
Use the surveyor who did the original survey. Have the two surveyors communicate and work out the differences. Tell your neighbor to hold off work until the surveys are in agreement. Threaten to sue him if necessary to stop him, or ask a court for a temporary injunction.
Wrong surveys are not uncommon. I've had the same survey company be a foot off and argue with me until I dug down and showed them their original marker.

 

[latigo]

You DON'T need a survey!

Not if the physical conditions you describe have substantially existed for a period of ten (10) years and (regardless of any change in ownership of the adjoining properties during that period of time.)

Because if so, then that division line is effectively and legally and permanently fixed - irrespective of plats, deeds and surveys.

What you need to do is to talk to your attorney about a boundary line having been effectively established by acquiescence * (as in mutual recognition).

____________________


[*] For examples see Washington Supreme Court cases of: Lamon vs. McTighee, 434 P.2d 567; Douglas NW vs. Bill O'Brien & Sons, 828 P. 2d 565; Lilly vs. Lynch, 945 P. 2d 727; et al.

 

[154NH773]

latigo
You DON'T need a survey!...
Because if so, then that division line is effectively and legally and permanently fixed - irrespective of plats, deeds and surveys.

All of what latigo says may be true, but WILL require a court fight to have it declared so.

It will be much easier, and less costly in my opinion, to have the original surveyor convince the neighbor's surveyor that there is a problem with his survey.

If the original surveyor NOW says the neighbor's surveyor is correct, then you may follow latigo's suggestion if you want to spend the money and take a chance in court.

 

[Looking4anout]

Since these neighborhoods are around only 5 years old, all the original corner markers are still in place especially the rebar. Would it not be his burden to prove that the original markers are wrong since his are off?
I took a day off work so I can be home when his workers start and I can keep an eye on the activity. If they start to touch my landscaping, I will call the police to intervene. I know they can not do anything, even if i say it is trespass and vandalism can they? Can they warn the workers to not cross the old marked line until us owners have it worked out?

 

[154NH773]

"Since these neighborhoods are around only 5 years old, all the original corner markers are still in place especially the rebar. Would it not be his burden to prove that the original markers are wrong since his are off?"

Prove to whom? Your claiming outside of a court that the markers are correct, and they are where originally placed, means absolutely nothing. If you cannot come to an agreement you will have to have a court decide who is correct, and for that you will need a surveyor to provide evidence or testify that you are correct.
I stand by my contention that you will need a surveyor to intervene with the neighbor's surveyor, or to testify in court.

 

[latigo]

All of what latigo says may be true, but WILL require a court fight to have it declared so.

It will be much easier, and less costly in my opinion, to have the original surveyor convince the neighbor's surveyor that there is a problem with his survey.

If the original surveyor NOW says the neighbor's surveyor is correct, then you may follow latigo's suggestion if you want to spend the money and take a chance in court.

Well now, since you have seen fit to tell the OP that what I have posted regarding Washington boundary-line laws "may be" controversial and problematic as supporting a cause of action to quiet title, perhaps you will favor us with your opinion of those laws that is more trustworthy.

 

[154NH773]

Well now, since you have seen fit to tell the OP that what I have posted regarding Washington boundary-line laws "may be" controversial and problematic as supporting a cause of action to quiet title, perhaps you will favor us with your opinion of those laws that is more trustworthy.

I didn't say that, and you know that's not what I said.

For examples see Washington Supreme Court cases of: Lamon vs. McTighee, 434 P.2d 567; Douglas NW vs. Bill O'Brien & Sons, 828 P. 2d 565; Lilly vs. Lynch, 945 P. 2d 727; et al.

Oh, and by the way; it's Lamm vs. McTighe 434 P.2d 565 (1967). I don't see any relevance in Douglas, but Lilly provides good criteria.

My point is that before going to court and spending a lot of money, try and work it out between the two surveyors. Now that the OP has stated the short time involved, that generally rules out a valid claim of possession by acquiescence or adverse.

 

[Looking4anout]

Neighbor and I worked out an understanding. They were even willing to survey at their own cost, my property for roughly $1,000. Surprising.
After some careful measuring on my part,, while I am very convinced his new line is wrong, I am not certain the original is spot on either.
Because of how his line affects our landscaping, he agreed to giving two inches of "his side" and keep his wall on his side of that agreed line.
Now, because some of my landscaping is still on his side, can i gift it too him to deal with as he pleases, since it adds cost to his project to remove or work around it? Remember, I maintain it was installed solely on my side of the original line.
He does not want to waste time in fighting over anything, so I have this up on him.
Does this fall into the "branch crossing the property line is the property owner's whose land it overhangs to deal with" category? Certainly the plant's root system would, but what about other material?
If he asked for money to remove it, can I throw his offer to spend the extra money on another survey back at him?
I'd even offer to remove what is needed if things get heated, but it will not be within his timeline.
I have stated multiple time that I will not be spending money on his project. Fortunately, all of our discussion has been through email, so is this any kind of evidence, or proof of agreement in a court of law?

 

[154NH773]

Once you have a new survey that everyone agrees on, anything on his side is now his to do whatever he wants with. You won't have to "gift" him anything. That should settle everything.
I don't think you will want to go to court over a couple of inches of landscaping.

 

[Looking4anout]

We have settled this issue and are still on friendly terms, although I would consider us merely acquaintances.
We both want his project done and over with so we can be done with the disruption in our lives and backyards. However, they are installing his retaining wall completely wrong.
The workers had left the installation manual in reach from my yard, so I saw the brand and looked it up online.
I'm also in the construction industry, so already knew how these walls went together which is why this caught my attention.

FYI: Allenblock retaining wall.

Here are the issues:
Although the wall will be less than 4' in height, the county requires permit for back filling behind the wall, since ground was at different/lower elevation before. They have no permit.
They are not setting the base on crushed rock, except for a thin layer (maybe 1" deep).
They are not filling the block with gravel. Only native, non-compacted soil.
They are not putting gravel behind the wall for drainage. Only native, non-compacted soil.
They are not putting in any means by which to support the fence posts they will be placing behind, or in the wall. (Typically a "geomesh" is used).

I don't want to be the whistle blower and report to the county. They require my contact info in order to take the report.
I don't want to tell the neighbor I think his contractor is doing it wrong. I'm already on his contractor's "s--t" list for confronting them about damaging our landscaping, and working from our side, even after we all agreed to the line.

I do want to be a friendly neighbor and give him a heads up, just for his own protection, but don't want to seem like I am only trying to stall the project. Failure of his wall and fence would damage our landscaping further. I would rather be proactive, than wait until after something happens.

 

[Zigner]

I don't want to tell the neighbor I think his contractor is doing it wrong. I'm already on his contractor's "s--t" list for confronting them about damaging our landscaping, and working from our side, even after we all agreed to the line.

Who gives a flying fig what the contractor thinks of you?

 

[justalayman]

so you walk up to the neighbor and say:

I saw some of this type of wall being installed on one of my jobs, not sure it was the same brand or anything though. The installer was telling me the manufacturer of that wall required it to be filled with stone and filled on one side with stone rather than just dirt for drainage and stability and I noticed your installer was using just dirt. Have you taken a look at the installation requirements for your wall? Even with all the arguing we have had, I sure would hate to see you spend that kind of money and it not last because it wasn't installed properly.





are ya ready for a beer? I'll buy the first round.



as to the installer; he is going to do the work and move on. Your neighbor will be there everyday. I would tend to be more concerned that my neighbor thought I cared enough to tip him off than what the installer thinks of me. You apparently have started to build a relationship with the neighbor. This is a chance to show you do have concern for your neighbors.

as to the installer damaging your landscaping and working from your side:

being allowed to work from both sides is a huge benefit so you might offer to allow it IF you have assurances that anything the installer damages gets taken care of. Again, build the relationship.