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  1. #1
    mdbravo34 is offline Junior Member
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    Property Line (Fence installation)

    What is the name of your state? Texas
    I was establishing and verifying some Property Points on my Property and have concluded that my neighbor has encroached onto my Property about 4.5 feet. I did not own my Property at the time that he had installed the existing fence.The fence has been in place at least 6 years. Is there an imminent domain law or legally set by metes and bounds is this my Property?This Property is over 700 feet long.
  2. #2
    BelizeBreeze is offline Senior Member
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    You are confusing a municipalities and utilities right to 'take' (Eminent Domain) with adverse possession, which is the taking of another's land by hostile and open means.

    The law on Adverse Possession in Texas has changed little since [URL=http://www.mrsc.org/mc/courts/supreme/022wn2d/022wn2d0027.htm]22 Wn.2d 27, BOWDEN-GAZZAM COMPANY v. JACK C. HOGAN December 22, 1943[/URL]
    in which the court said:

    "[That] the defendant has been in open, notorious, hostile and adverse, and continuous possession of the property hereinafter described for more than ten years prior to the commencement of this action, and has maintained thereon certain buildings and structures, and by virtue of such possession, defendant has acquired title to said property by adverse possession."

    So, to your issue, although the fence may have been in existence for 50 or more years, the lack of affirmative action by the neighbor previous and your ownership of less than 10 years provides you with the option of sending the neighbor a Certified (RRR) letter demanding the fence be moved.

    Simple huh?
  3. #3
    seniorjudge is offline Senior Member
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    I was establishing and verifying some Property Points on my Property and have concluded that my neighbor has encroached onto my Property about 4.5 feet.

    What does this mean?

    Also, did you get a boundary line survey?
    There are two rules for success:

    (1) Never tell everything you know.
  4. #4
    mdbravo34 is offline Junior Member
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    Property line

    Property pins do exist, but there is no direct site from one pin to another.
    Trees and underbrush have grown along the fenceline. I pulled measurements from re-establishing a line 50 ft. out and measuring towards fence at different points, I'm confident of my results, I pulled a string line on a 723 ft. line.Of course if possible you always want to get along with your neighbor.
  5. #5
    BelizeBreeze is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdbravo34
    Property pins do exist, but there is no direct site from one pin to another.
    Trees and underbrush have grown along the fenceline. I pulled measurements from re-establishing a line 50 ft. out and measuring towards fence at different points, I'm confident of my results, I pulled a string line on a 723 ft. line.Of course if possible you always want to get along with your neighbor.
    That was NOT a response to the question asked. And your 'confidence' is not going to matter if the problem escalates to legal action.
  6. #6
    seniorjudge is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdbravo34
    Property pins do exist, but there is no direct site from one pin to another.
    Trees and underbrush have grown along the fenceline. I pulled measurements from re-establishing a line 50 ft. out and measuring towards fence at different points, I'm confident of my results, I pulled a string line on a 723 ft. line.Of course if possible you always want to get along with your neighbor.
    Translated, this means you have no survey and you have just guessed at this.

    Is that a fair statement?
    There are two rules for success:

    (1) Never tell everything you know.
  7. #7
    Orcons is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by BelizeBreeze
    You are confusing a municipalities and utilities right to 'take' (Eminent Domain) with adverse possession, which is the taking of another's land by hostile and open means.

    The law on Adverse Possession in Texas has changed little since [URL=http://www.mrsc.org/mc/courts/supreme/022wn2d/022wn2d0027.htm]22 Wn.2d 27, BOWDEN-GAZZAM COMPANY v. JACK C. HOGAN December 22, 1943[/URL]
    in which the court said:

    "[That] the defendant has been in open, notorious, hostile and adverse, and continuous possession of the property hereinafter described for more than ten years prior to the commencement of this action, and has maintained thereon certain buildings and structures, and by virtue of such possession, defendant has acquired title to said property by adverse possession."

    So, to your issue, although the fence may have been in existence for 50 or more years, the lack of affirmative action by the neighbor previous and your ownership of less than 10 years provides you with the option of sending the neighbor a Certified (RRR) letter demanding the fence be moved.

    Simple huh?
    Not so simple. I don't know Texas law but in other states the issue is how long the adverse possessor (or predecessors in title if you are allowed to tack) has adversely possessed the land not how long the record owner has had title. The fact that you owned the land for less than 10 years is not relevant. If the fence has been there less than 10 years you are OK which gives even more reason to send a letter to stop the prescriptive period from running.

    Less clear is whether it matters that they did not bring an action once the 10 year period had run (assuming it has). In many states title is considered to vest in the adverse possessor when the claim ripens whether or not action is brought. Again I don't know Texas law but I would not be so sure that if the claim has ripened it can be defeated by sending a letter. Any case law to support this?
    Last edited by Orcons; 11-09-2005 at 11:03 AM.
  8. #8
    mdbravo34 is offline Junior Member
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    Propery line

    Texas.One does not have to have an Engineers degree,to have taught many Engineers and Surveyors over the years on how to shoot Elevations using a Lazer and a Linker Rod.This would be called 25 years of "Experience" in laying out buildings,parking lots,etc."Confidence" as always are at different levels.(Square)when you have two points(survey pins) at opposite ends running East and West and measure the same distance away from each Pin lining up with existing North and South Pins, you are re-establishing the Property Line, string line it and measure back at different intervals.
  9. #9
    BelizeBreeze is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdbravo34
    Texas.One does not have to have an Engineers degree,to have taught many Engineers and Surveyors over the years on how to shoot Elevations using a Lazer and a Linker Rod.This would be called 25 years of "Experience" in laying out buildings,parking lots,etc."Confidence" as always are at different levels.(Square)when you have two points(survey pins) at opposite ends running East and West and measure the same distance away from each Pin lining up with existing North and South Pins, you are re-establishing the Property Line, string line it and measure back at different intervals.
    And what does this have to do with the legal requirements under Texas law?
  10. #10
    seniorjudge is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdbravo34
    Texas.One does not have to have an Engineers degree,to have taught many Engineers and Surveyors over the years on how to shoot Elevations using a Lazer and a Linker Rod.This would be called 25 years of "Experience" in laying out buildings,parking lots,etc."Confidence" as always are at different levels.(Square)when you have two points(survey pins) at opposite ends running East and West and measure the same distance away from each Pin lining up with existing North and South Pins, you are re-establishing the Property Line, string line it and measure back at different intervals.
    Translated, this means you have no survey and you have just guessed at this.

    Is that a fair statement?
    There are two rules for success:

    (1) Never tell everything you know.
  11. #11
    mdbravo34 is offline Junior Member
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    Survey

    Texas.O.K. I give up......
  12. #12
    HappyHusband is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdbravo34
    Texas.O.K. I give up......
    No need to give up. Your property is what is shown on the survey drawn up by surveying professionals and recorded at the local city hall or county clerks office, regardless of where your neighbor may have constructed his fence. ( Or your fence, if it is actually on your property).

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