Protecting yourself when erecting a stone boundry fence

[luckylager]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Texas

I am in the process of building a permanent fencing solution for my residence and would appreciate opinions and advice.

My goals are:

1. Be a good neighbor by making the fence equally attractive on both sides while not asking for any money from my neighbors.

2. Build the boundary fence (a.k.a. a 12" thick double-sided stone wall) as close to the property line as possible without touching or crossing it.

3. By keeping the wall entirely on my property, maintain complete ownership and control of it.

4. Avoid the loss of any property through adverse possession, no matter how unlikely that scenario may be. Since my current lot is the precise minimum width to allow it to be subdivided into two parcels (100' wide), the loss of any fraction of an inch would significantly devalue the property to a significant pool of potential buyers.

Thus far I have had a respected surveyor out twice. During his first visit he verified the corner pins and marked the boundary lines to be fenced with nails and flags every 20'. The second time he verified that the inside edge of footing forms were all between .25" to .5" inside of the property line.

His next visit will be to check the [now] poured footing and mark it prior to the mason laying any stones.

Due to the use of irregular-shaped stones, I probably should have given the footing more than .25" of space from the property line but I felt greedy knowing I would have a surveyor overseeing the project and wanting the maximum use of my property.

I am confident that the mason can keep the stones inside the line with the assistance of the footing being marked by the surveyor. What I can't be sure of is the wall potentially moving one direction or another over the years...

If one or two stones (out of thousands) were to be exactly on the property line, does that somehow give a neighbor the claim that the wall is shared property? Does the same logic apply to any sub-grade concrete that may have spilled under the forms and crossed the property line?

MY CHIEF QUESTION:

Once the wall has been completed and surveyed to show that it is entirely on my property, what steps should be taken to protect my ownership rights of the .5" that is between the wall and the property line?

Moreover, is there a way to politely point out that although the wall was built to look nice on the outsides, it was paid for entirely by myself, is entirely on my property, and should not be modified or molested in any capacity?

Don't get me wrong; I like my neighbors and they are all happy to allow my masons to be on their property while beautifying the side of this expensive wall that will face their properties. The same can be said about them consenting to allow the form stakes of my footing to be temporarily set on their property. I simply do not want any future misunderstanding regarding the fact that this wall is not shared in any capacity and any land between it and the property line has not been surrendered.

Ideally this notice and retention of rights would be something that had bearing on any current and future neighbors.

 

[FarmerJ]

Has your Masonary contractor even offered speculation about future causes of the wall leaning one direction or another ? I think thats who you need to speak to about that one since your the customer , granted there is not much he can do about unforseen things like sink holes that swallow up half the yard . As far as maintaining the wall goes there really shouldnt be anything you have to do with it if it is well built, and if its on your side of the lot line there should be no reason for any nieghbor in the near future to deny you access to maintain it since they will all enjoy it with out it costing them a dime, I wouldnt worry about any of them doing anything to it , your certainly free to create a pole that has a old side view mirrror from a car to use from over the top of the wall to inspect the opposite side from time to time. If your concerned about retaining your owner ship rights of even two inches of your lot that is on opposite side of wall see if you can have a old electric weed wacker rebuilt on a long pole in order to cut the weeds down from over the top or a long long handled sprayer to spray from over the top so your able to maintain the strip. Take the time now too to add copper rods beat in to the ground near your current survey stakes after you call the call before you dig line so you make sure your not hitting a utility , doing that makes it easy to find them with metal detector in the future. A Atty can give you some options on letters and giving neighbors consent to use the land from the wall to the lot line if you really want to go that route. BTW not a one of your neighbors will have the right to maintain or change anything on your wall and if they did thats when you take pics and go see a attorney.

 

[luckylager]

Has your Masonary contractor even offered speculation about future causes of the wall leaning one direction or another ? I think thats who you need to speak to about that one since your the customer , granted there is not much he can do about unforseen things like sink holes that swallow up half the yard . As far as maintaining the wall goes there really shouldnt be anything you have to do with it if it is well built, and if its on your side of the lot line there should be no reason for any nieghbor in the near future to deny you access to maintain it since they will all enjoy it with out it costing them a dime, I wouldnt worry about any of them doing anything to it , your certainly free to create a pole that has a old side view mirrror from a car to use from over the top of the wall to inspect the opposite side from time to time. If your concerned about retaining your owner ship rights of even two inches of your lot that is on opposite side of wall see if you can have a old electric weed wacker rebuilt on a long pole in order to cut the weeds down from over the top or a long long handled sprayer to spray from over the top so your able to maintain the strip. Take the time now too to add copper rods beat in to the ground near your current survey stakes after you call the call before you dig line so you make sure your not hitting a utility , doing that makes it easy to find them with metal detector in the future. A Atty can give you some options on letters and giving neighbors consent to use the land from the wall to the lot line if you really want to go that route. BTW not a one of your neighbors will have the right to maintain or change anything on your wall and if they did thats when you take pics and go see a attorney.

Thank you for your reply!

I will double check with my engineer and the mason about the acceptable range of movement in a properly designed wall. Bringing that possibility up was variable that I indeed should have left off of my post. Moving forward, please assume there will be no lateral movement in the wall.

Please also do not be concerned with any weeds that may grow in the .5" or less space between my wall and the property line.

The pole with a car mirror is a fine idea for routinely checking the status of the outside face of the wall! It seems much more safe than my original plan of simply walking along the top of it (flat and 12" wide).

One neighbor - with a concrete driveway running the length of our shared property line - has asked (so far):

1. "Would you mind building the wall 6" off the property line so I can grow some vines?" Mind you that we are taking about a neighborhood that per square foot of raw land is some of the most expensive in Texas.

2. "Can I run electrical conduit through the (note the use of the word "the" rather than "your") wall so I can install lighting on it?"

3. "How would be the best way for me to hang an electric gate off the wall you are building?"

My answer to all three have been, "Gee, let me think about that."

Because of these types of questions, I can not be so certain that the average homeowner does not assume that they are free to do what they like with a fence that happens to be near their property. Reading a recent post here confirms my fears:

https://forum.freeadvice.com/neighbors-boundaries-108/fence-line-question-511062.html

I would no more think of asking a neighbor for 6" of their property (for a length of 120') or the ability to run an electrical line through their wall than I would asking if I may sleep with their wife (sorry if that is too crude). My point is it strikes me as a ridiculous request and leads me to seeking advice on a discussion board such as this.

 

[TigerD]

I would no more think of asking a neighbor for 6" of their property (for a length of 120') or the ability to run an electrical line through their wall than I would asking if I may sleep with their wife (sorry if that is too crude).

Well, of course, you wouldn't ask that. As long as she says yes, you don't need any other confirmation.

As for hanging stuff on the wall and installing lights, just tell the neighbors that such action would void the mason's warranty and as such you cannot permit it.

DC

 

[drewguy]

Or be more direct and tell them that since it's your wall you'd like to select whatever lighting you see fit for it. If they want to place lights in the ground on their side to "wash" the wall that's fine.

As for the vines, you can also tell them that vines tend to eat masonry and you'd like the wall to last. Suggest that he erect a trellis on his property a few inches from the wall if he wants vines.

As for the electric gate, he should install a separate post. Of course he can have it go right up to the wall, but he should not connect it.

BTW, as for the original AP question--I understand the theoretical concern but it seems highly unlikely that someone could claim AP over .5" of ground adjacent to a fence/wall, or that they would bother. I'm not sure of this, but I believe that the standard of accuracy for most residential surveying is 1/4 or 1/8", so you're already pushing those tolerances.