Some in Neighborhood wanting Street lights

[rlsebring]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Florida


Some owners in my neighborhood are trying to get street lights throughout the neighborhood. These owners are taking the approach of trying to get the required 55% of the neighbors sign a petition to take to the County Board to get an MSBU district formed.

My concern is if they are sucessful in getting 55%, 45% of the owners that did not want the lights are going to be forced to pay for something they don't want and to top it off will show up on their property tax bills.

As you may have guessed I don not want the lights. I've lived in this neighborhood for 16 years. It really chafes me to be forced to pay for something I do not want.

As a foot note, If the 55% want street lights they can pay for them OR if any individual wants them, fine.

I am trying to draw out any of the other neighbors that don't want them to make their voice heard but is there any recourse if they are sucessful or am I now a member of a socialist neighborhood?

 

[justalayman]

welcome to democracy

 

[JustAPal00]

Move to a very rural part of the country where you have no neighbors.

 

[LillianX]

Socialist? Really?

By your definition of socialism, every time you drive on a city street, accept protection from the police or drink municipal water you're participating in socialism. Hooray socialism!

 

[csi7]

If you do not want street lights, then you will have to get involved with the issue to stop it from becoming effective for all the neighborhood to have to pay for street lights.
In our neighborhood, with underground utilities, it costs over $1500.00 to have a pole put in near the "green boxes".
I would find out from the utility company how much it charges to install the street light, what the monthly fee would be on the individual's light bill to provide a cost analysis to the county.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

As mentioned, research the average cost to each household. Lobby them to disagree based on that. We all want things until the bill shows up.

 

[NC Aggie]

welcome to democracy

Nothing else needs to be said!

 

[154NH773]

Many towns are reducing streetlights as a cost saving measure. There seems to be some research showing that there is little safety effect from reducing the light. Try doing some research on that angle.
Another legislation gaining ground is "Dark Sky" ordinances. These attempt to cut down on light pollution that has made the night sky all but invisible to people in populated areas. There is a website you can look up.
I'm lucky to still be able to observe the sky, almost as well as when my mother taught me the constellations 60+ years ago.

 

[rlsebring]

If you do not want street lights, then you will have to get involved with the issue to stop it from becoming effective for all the neighborhood to have to pay for street lights.
In our neighborhood, with underground utilities, it costs over $1500.00 to have a pole put in near the "green boxes".
I would find out from the utility company how much it charges to install the street light, what the monthly fee would be on the individual's light bill to provide a cost analysis to the county.

Unfortunately having to get more involved now. Your figures are about what they project for our underground neighborhood. The cost is approximately $70 per property per year. It's not a cost issue for me but is an issue of something I do not want. BTW neighborhood is 40 years old this year.

So far about 2/3rds of the required minimum are showing up for these meetings. From how the meetings are going they are following the procedure for creating a MSBU as set out by the County Commisioners. Saving that for when this goes to the county if it makes it that far.

Move to a very rural part of the country where you have no neighbors.

Yeah I'll just up and move from where I have lived now for 16 years.

Socialist? Really?

By your definition of socialism, every time you drive on a city street, accept protection from the police or drink municipal water you're participating in socialism. Hooray socialism!

What would you call it then? Yours is a very poor example.

I call it socialism when somebody wants me to help pay for something they want. For 30 dollars more per year they can have the local power company install a light for them personally.

As mentioned, research the average cost to each household. Lobby them to disagree based on that. We all want things until the bill shows up.

I am starting to contact the neighbors that just aren't responding either way. They are the ones that will look at their property tax bill in a year and ask how the hell did that happen.

Nothing else needs to be said!

Probably the truest of all...

Many towns are reducing streetlights as a cost saving measure. There seems to be some research showing that there is little safety effect from reducing the light. Try doing some research on that angle.
Another legislation gaining ground is "Dark Sky" ordinances. These attempt to cut down on light pollution that has made the night sky all but invisible to people in populated areas. There is a website you can look up.
I'm lucky to still be able to observe the sky, almost as well as when my mother taught me the constellations 60+ years ago.

This is interesting as they are using just the opposite as a scare tactic trying to get the lighting.

My position is I don't want the lights and damn sure don't what another charge on my property tax bill and one that could cause me to lose my home if I refused to pay it.

 

[FarmerJ]

street lighting like other things is just one of them things people have to deal with , so do some research and while at meetings include any thing you can learn about lighting like cost diff when lights that are designed to push light down and not waste it are used compared to models that do waste light. street lighting is a small issue compared to some of the bigger stuff that comes along with living in developed areas like first time around city water and sewer and forced connection rules. ( I grew up in a suburban area that faced the street lighting issue and remember when city water and sewer came in)

 

[rlsebring]

Yeah this is what's scary. The newly formed neighborhood watch is instigating this. Lot of half truths are being told to get the older/ederly homeowners to agree to the lighting. They said at last nights meeting that they have a lot of improvement plans...

I'll probably have to wait this out till it goes before the boardd of county commissioners. The watch group is just doing whatever at the moment. The group has signed up everyone in their respective household to be able to vote at the meetings. Some of them have 4 and 6 members from the same household voting.

It'll probably come down to a lawsuit based on procedural action. May be able to get it thrown out at the county level.

As said before IF any individual wants a light they have that ability to have one installed and paid for by themselfs. Don't ask me to subsidize it.

street lighting like other things is just one of them things people have to deal with , so do some research and while at meetings include any thing you can learn about lighting like cost diff when lights that are designed to push light down and not waste it are used compared to models that do waste light. street lighting is a small issue compared to some of the bigger stuff that comes along with living in developed areas like first time around city water and sewer and forced connection rules. ( I grew up in a suburban area that faced the street lighting issue and remember when city water and sewer came in)

 

[drewguy]

Here's the problem you have: The rules or the law says 55% support is enough. What you want to require is 100% support, so that without yours the lights can't be installed. If everybody else wants them, why should you have the right to say no? That's what's called a dictatorship.

Work within the rules that were democratically created and persuade people that they are better off without streetlights for the various reasons others have said.

 

[Choosymother]

I would stick to the Socialism / Creeping Nanny State angle and try to get your neighbors fired up about it.

There's nothing democratic about this because they are forcing you to PAY for something you don't want or use!!!!!!

It's just like the Socialist Health Care System.

You live in a Democracy. You should be able to opt out of the stuff you don't want to participate in. Anything less is an IMPOSITION put on you by the gov't.

If the lighting company will put up individual lights in front of any house that wants them, then the answer is simple. More Freedom!!!! Less Socialism!!!!

Good Luck!

 

[154NH773]

I would stick to the Socialism / Creeping Nanny State angle and try to get your neighbors fired up about it.

I disagree.
I would stick with scientific and researched backed arguments. There are legitimate studies available on the web that show a reason to install lighting to reduce accidents, but little effect on crime other than making people feel better.
Go with science, not political ranting.

 

[rlsebring]

Here's the problem you have: The rules or the law says 55% support is enough. What you want to require is 100% support, so that without yours the lights can't be installed. If everybody else wants them, why should you have the right to say no? That's what's called a dictatorship.

Work within the rules that were democratically created and persuade people that they are better off without streetlights for the various reasons others have said.

My first goal is to get 100% response whether yea or nay from every household. It's not clear how a non-response is handled on the voting. The leaders of the newly formed watch want to believe that it's considered a yea since they didn't take the time to vote against it.

This same watch is under the impression that if anyone in their household is an official member of the watch that each one is entitled to a vote. Luckily the County did state one vote per household but that's how this whole mess started by surveying the households. Many households with 4 and 6 members while others can only have one, themselves.

I would stick to the Socialism / Creeping Nanny State angle and try to get your neighbors fired up about it.

There's nothing democratic about this because they are forcing you to PAY for something you don't want or use!!!!!!

It's just like the Socialist Health Care System.

You live in a Democracy. You should be able to opt out of the stuff you don't want to participate in. Anything less is an IMPOSITION put on you by the gov't.

If the lighting company will put up individual lights in front of any house that wants them, then the answer is simple. More Freedom!!!! Less Socialism!!!!

Good Luck!

I'll use this along with other suggestions on getting ALL the neighbors fired up as you say. Many in the neighborhood would and will just sit back and follow the leader., which I guess that their prerogative.

I disagree.
I would stick with scientific and researched backed arguments. There are legitimate studies available on the web that show a reason to install lighting to reduce accidents, but little effect on crime other than making people feel better.
Go with science, not political ranting.

I'll figure out how to accomplish this. Our neighborhood has been dark for 40 years. Never any problem crime or otherwise during this time and no recent incident either. Most of the newer homeowners are backing this. Really kills me. Move into our neighborhood then a year or so later " It's too dark, we need lights"

The basic package for street lights they are proposing is 60.00 or so per year for 9 lights throughout the neighborhood. Gulf Power will install the exact same light for ~90.00 per year. Every house can have one for that price if they want it.

It's appearing that I am going to have to exert 3 times the effort to kill this or try and exclude myself as the time they are taking to get it. I'm also counting on dealing with a little more reasoning (law or procedure) once this makes it to the county Commissioners.

Continue the ideas, thanks