"Stay off my lawn"...potential neighbor problems here?

[Cocoa1212]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NY
We are looking at a 4 acre piece of land that has been vacant for at least 20 years. A neighbor that owns the piece adjoining this land is currently driving across it to get to his property, although he has a legal driveway to his home on another road. It appears driving across this lot is quicker by a few seconds. I have researched this properties' abstract/deed, and the neighbor's abstract/deed at the town. In addition, I have looked at the last known survey of the lot we are interested in (from 1987). No where can I find an easement, right of way or right of use that was given to this neighbor. It appears he has simply taken the liberty to use this easier route since no one was there to tell him "no" for many years. He is even plowing it right now, tearing up the grass, in fact it is a beaten path, though not paved or stoned, just truck tracks. If we were to purchase this property, will it be an issue if we try to close off his prefered mode of entrance to his property, that it appears he has been using for around 10 years? Our attorney made a comment that scared my husband, saying, "well, you could be in for a lawsuit from that guy...":What? even though it appears he has no LEGAL right to use this strip of land he is driving across? Has anyone heard of such a thing...that if he has been using it for a decade he gets to use it forever now, even if new owners purchase the property? Should or could the current owners send him an letter telling him to "stay off my lawn?" (they are out of state owners who inherited the land last year and have never been there...) HELP! anyone ever heard of a similar situation?What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NY

 

[disneykid52]

call the guy from "grand torino". he'll get the job done. GET OFF MY LAWN!!!!!

 

[Dave1952]

Your attorney is quite right that this fellow might sue and that you would need to defend. So plan for this. Tell the seller that you want him to drop the price because if this possible suit. Look up the laws for "adverse possession" in your State. Do these laws sound like he might own some of this land? If so subtract that land from the purchase price too.

Good luck

 

[drewguy]

Adverse possession requires 10 years in New York, so he might make that time. He would probably be entitled only to a prescriptive easement.

As suggested above, get the sellers to drop the price or resolve the issue by sending him a letter demanding that he stop using the property in this way, which should terminate the claim unless he seeks to make it.

And then make sure you have good title insurance.

 

[154NH773]

If you buy this property without resolving the issue, you will be in for a long expensive fight (if your neighbor decides to really make a claim).

I would ask the owner of the property to resolve this permanently, or back out of the deal. If you decide that you can live with the situation; then, as the others have advised, get the price lowered. Ask the neighbor how much he would settle on to renounce any claim, and then get the price lowered by that amount and pay him off.

 

[Cocoa1212]

Thank you for the interesting replies. Prescriptive Easement is what I am worried about here, though I don't know how much funds this guy has to fight for it with...The property is lake front, and the current owners inherited it from a relative, have never even been there, we are to purchase it "as is" if we want it...we love the property, have many dreams for a 4ac piece on the lake, buthe is driving right through the area we would want to build on! I am going to ask the real estate agent to contact these absentee owners and ask they send hima letter requesting he stop driving on the lawn and see what happens...I suppose there would have to be a requirement of some sort of a response from him to let us know what his state of mind is over the whole deal....then we will know what we are dealing with. I'd rather it come from the owners, not us, at this time...let them be the bad guys right now...Hubby wants to put a gate over the driveway and see what happens, but that could spell trouble, I'd think...He's thinking like Clint Eastwood from Gran Torino right now...any other ideas are welcome!

 

[Mass_Shyster]

I'd rather it come from the owners, not us, at this time...let them be the bad guys right now

I disagree. I think you should approach the neighbor, lay your cards on the table, and see what happens. Explain that you want to purchase the property, and are considering building where his potential prescriptive easement is.

Maybe you can purchase his interest in the prescriptive easement.

I think you're much better off getting it out in the open, directly between you and him, rather than having your agent ask the seller's agent to ask the sellers to send a letter, and wait for a response.

 

[drewguy]

I disagree-you're right to have the current owners address the situation. It's still their property and their neighbor, and they are the ones who have the legal right to enforce. If a letter from them gets an "okay" then you're probably in good and if it stirs up trouble you want the current owners to resolve it.

They can sell the property "as is" but that doesn't mean you have to buy it "as is". If the property is that attractive to you you may just have to take the chance over fighting this out with the neighbor. But to my mind you have some significant risks here that could turn a dream property into a nightmare. You'd be better off walking away than going into that without full knowledge.

 

[antrc170]

One of the first things that you need to ascertain is on what terms the driver originally started using the shortcut. If the original owners gave him permission, or the permission was implied by a friendly relationship its called neighborly accomadation. Once permission is given to utilze property, a claim for an easement through adverse possession is eliminated. Permission can be revoked at any time for any reason. The adverse possession needed to establish an easement is done without permission. Once permission is granted it alliviates that route for claiming access.

So if the original owners told the neighbor that he could drive across, or you can show that they held a friendly relationship where the permission was implied then you can avoid the entire easement claim.

 

[Mass_Shyster]

I disagree-you're right to have the current owners address the situation. It's still their property and their neighbor, and they are the ones who have the legal right to enforce. If a letter from them gets an "okay" then you're probably in good and if it stirs up trouble you want the current owners to resolve it.

They can sell the property "as is" but that doesn't mean you have to buy it "as is". If the property is that attractive to you you may just have to take the chance over fighting this out with the neighbor. But to my mind you have some significant risks here that could turn a dream property into a nightmare. You'd be better off walking away than going into that without full knowledge.

The issue I see with this approach is if seller says "Neighbor stated he will cease driving across land". Buyer buys property and neighbor refuses to stop driving across land, and files suit for prescriptive easement. What recourse does buyer have?

 

[xylene]

There are lots of parcels in NY.

Consider looking at another one, or figure out exactly how much the hassle of dealing with this is worth to you.

Also consider what would happen if you lost.

Really the seller has a problem that they need to take care of to make the property saleable.

 

[HomeGuru]

call the guy from "grand torino". he'll get the job done. GET OFF MY LAWN!!!!!

**A: I like the "Make My Day" guy.

 

[drewguy]

The issue I see with this approach is if seller says "Neighbor stated he will cease driving across land". Buyer buys property and neighbor refuses to stop driving across land, and files suit for prescriptive easement. What recourse does buyer have?

Sure, but the same thing could happen if OP asks the question and the response is "I will stop driving across the land."

The current owners have the right to withdraw permission, or to grant it temporarily, or any number of other things, including accepting a shakedown. The buyers aren't in such a convenient position.

 

[Cocoa1212]

Well, I think we are going to have the current owners send a letter via their attorney that signifies that they assume he had permission (express or implied) from their relative who left them the property, but as they are now the owners, they are requesting he stop driving across it as a shortcut. Then we will see what happens. The property is very desireable, affordable lakefront acreage is hard to find...so we are willing somewhat to wait and see, not ready to walk away yet. I wanted to approach the guy too, as some suggested and get a feel for him, but spouse not interested, wants to let the letter go out first and see what happens. Normal neighbor on the other side calls this guy "friendly enough, but kinda unique". Can't wait to see what that means....

 

[FarmerJ]

If you really want this that badly first learn what your states AP laws are and what conditions, test must be met by a party claiming AP so you fully understand what you would face then if you still want it you might consider making your offer contingent on 1 proof from sellers atty that proper notice has been sent with copy of registerd /certified mail rects and copy of actual notice telling the nbr that any permission in the past to cross this lot or use any portion of it as of so and so date is revoked and then if your atty can help you write the second part of the offer to address either asking for a reduced price to cover the cost of defending a AP claim or having the sellers maybe post a bond of x amount to help pay legal cost in the future and after a set amount of time passes if the nbr doesnt file a AP claim the amount held back will be refunded to the seller ? Either which way dont do any thing with out seeking legal advice , yes lake living is very desirable for many but at the same time the headache from having this kind of mess cleaned up could be costly.