Confirmed counterfeit item refund

[HopefulinTX]

TX

I purchased a North Face jacket on eBay in November 2013. All looked well—until the zipper broke end of February. As part of their warranty program, I sent the jacket to North Face to have the zipper repaired. Well, they shipped the item back with a letter stating the jacket was not authentic and they could not repair the jacket. I immediately contacted the seller. I let the seller know the jacket was confirmed counterfeit by North Face and I had a letter from the company to prove it. I asked that I be refunded the amount of the coat (100.00), the shipping she charged, the shipping it would cost me to send back to her, and the shipping I paid out of pocket to send the coat to North Face. She was very apologetic, said she had no idea it was inauthentic as she said she also purchased online for herself and never wore. I believe her, I’ve combed through her feedback and she has nothing that would indicate she is a counterfeit scam artist. She said she would issue a refund via paypal, did not specify amount or confirm my requested amount. That was over a week ago (3/5/14). I have sent her one other email and still have not heard back from her. I already left positive feedback months ago when I received the jacket and thought it to be authentic.

Unfortunately, if I opened a case with ebay, they would only require her to refund original price + shipping to get to me. They won’t give me a refund for the shipping back to the seller and the cost to ship to North Face—which is “ok,” considering at this point, I can’t even open a case with ebay or paypal now because it is past the 45 day mark.

Very frustrating. I am feeling like I’m beating a dead horse, but I’m not ready to give up just yet. Any advice on resolving this matter and getting my money back?

 

[quincy]

TX

I purchased a North Face jacket on eBay in November 2013. All looked well�until the zipper broke end of February. As part of their warranty program, I sent the jacket to North Face to have the zipper repaired. Well, they shipped the item back with a letter stating the jacket was not authentic and they could not repair the jacket. I immediately contacted the seller. I let the seller know the jacket was confirmed counterfeit by North Face and I had a letter from the company to prove it. I asked that I be refunded the amount of the coat (100.00), the shipping she charged, the shipping it would cost me to send back to her, and the shipping I paid out of pocket to send the coat to North Face. She was very apologetic, said she had no idea it was inauthentic as she said she also purchased online for herself and never wore. I believe her, I�ve combed through her feedback and she has nothing that would indicate she is a counterfeit scam artist. She said she would issue a refund via paypal, did not specify amount or confirm my requested amount. That was over a week ago (3/5/14). I have sent her one other email and still have not heard back from her. I already left positive feedback months ago when I received the jacket and thought it to be authentic.

Unfortunately, if I opened a case with ebay, they would only require her to refund original price + shipping to get to me. They won�t give me a refund for the shipping back to the seller and the cost to ship to North Face�which is �ok,� considering at this point, I can�t even open a case with ebay or paypal now because it is past the 45 day mark.

Very frustrating. I am feeling like I�m beating a dead horse, but I�m not ready to give up just yet. Any advice on resolving this matter and getting my money back?

That was nice of North Face to send the jacket back to you.

When you purchase counterfeit goods, you have little legal recourse if the counterfeit goods turn out to be defective. Being defective is sort of the nature of the beast, for both the goods and the dealer of the goods.

I imagine the seller of the jacket is under investigation for selling a counterfeit jacket, or is being questioned about where she purchased it. If she had any other counterfeit goods in her possession, I would bet they were confiscated. She could now be facing some pretty grim consequences.

Although one week may seem too long to wait for the refund or contact from the seller, it seems that this contact with the seller is your only option if you hope to get a refund. That said, I would not count on one.

 

[racer72]

Unfortunately, if I opened a case with ebay, they would only require her to refund original price + shipping to get to me.

Nope, only the original price. You don't get shipping back unless the seller specifically states they refund shipping. It's is way too late to open a case anyway, you only have 30 days after you receive the item. If I was the seller and did not know that the item was counterfeit, I would have said sorry and done nothing else. Other than suing the seller in their home state, you have no other real recourse. You also must consider a lot of expenses associated with suing out of state are not recoverable like travel and lodging costs.

 

[single317dad]

Nope, only the original price. You don't get shipping back unless the seller specifically states they refund shipping. It's is way too late to open a case anyway, you only have 30 days after you receive the item. If I was the seller and did not know that the item was counterfeit, I would have said sorry and done nothing else. Other than suing the seller in their home state, you have no other real recourse. You also must consider a lot of expenses associated with suing out of state are not recoverable like travel and lodging costs.

If a buyer opens a case with eBay and wins, they'll always get original price + original shipping refunded. This is markedly different from a few years ago, when original shipping was rarely considered refundable. Most professional sellers (myself included) have begun simply refunding the full purchase price on all warranted items for the sake of simplicity. Unfortunately, it's too late for this buyer to take that course of action.

I'd still recommend contacting eBay. IF they decide to get involved, you'll definitely have to destroy the coat and send them photographic proof of that. So, the question is: could you live with a knockoff coat, and have the zipper repaired locally?

 

[quincy]

The jacket was purchased at a price well below market value for an authentic North Face jacket. If similar merchandise was being sold by the eBay seller, she is probably not selling on eBay anymore, and she is probably avoiding all contact from any purchaser.

HopefulinTX was naïve in thinking the jacket was anything but counterfeit at the time of purchase. I think single317dad has provided the only real solution - and that is to get the zipper repaired locally and live with the inferior knockoff.

In the future, if a deal sounds too good to be true, it is probably not a good deal at all.

 

[single317dad]

HopefulinTX was naïve in thinking the jacket was anything but counterfeit at the time of purchase.

True. As many counterfeits as there are on eBay (Uggs, for example: I'd go so far as to say 100% of the new Uggs on eBay might be fake), there isn't much in the way of lawsuits. There are a few on big-ticket items (famously a violin a few years ago, some art and Coach purses), but the $25-250 typical Uggs/North Face/L'Oreal buyers will at most make a Youtube video griping about it, and at the least just throw them in the trash. I wonder how a court would handle these massive number of small cases if it were determined that the average buyer is naive and that a "reasonable person" would assume the items are genuine.

 

[quincy]

True. As many counterfeits as there are on eBay (Uggs, for example: I'd go so far as to say 100% of the new Uggs on eBay might be fake), there isn't much in the way of lawsuits. There are a few on big-ticket items (famously a violin a few years ago, some art and Coach purses), but the $25-250 typical Uggs/North Face/L'Oreal buyers will at most make a Youtube video griping about it, and at the least just throw them in the trash. I wonder how a court would handle these massive number of small cases if it were determined that the average buyer is naive and that a "reasonable person" would assume the items are genuine.

Usually trademark holders will stop the seller from selling and go after the supplier of the counterfeit goods. A massive amount of counterfeit goods are confiscated at the U.S. border and will never reach the dealers.

The small-time sellers will generally be investigated (the trademark holder is mostly interested in finding the source of counterfeit goods), cease and desist letters with demands for compensation may be sent, and any counterfeit goods in the seller's possession can be confiscated and destroyed. The seller will generally not be allowed to sell on sites like eBay again.

Counterfeit dealers regularly sell their fake goods at flea markets and through online sites like eBay, and trademark holders regularly police these markets.

Nothing is done to the naïve buyer of the goods, except they could have whatever they purchased intercepted in shipment and destroyed and have nothing to show for the money spent. Or, like in HopefulinTX's situation, the purchaser can be stuck with a fake North Face with a non-working zipper, no warranty, and no legal recourse.

 

[HopefulinTX]

Seller communicated with me a couple days after I posted on here saying they would issue a refund at the end of march. It is now well into the first of April and still nothing. I have sent several emails and no communication returned by seller. I called ebay today and they said I could file a complaint with Internet Crime Complaint Center. Does anyone know about this process and my chances of getting a refund, if any, once doing this?

 

[quincy]

Seller communicated with me a couple days after I posted on here saying they would issue a refund at the end of march. It is now well into the first of April and still nothing. I have sent several emails and no communication returned by seller. I called ebay today and they said I could file a complaint with Internet Crime Complaint Center. Does anyone know about this process and my chances of getting a refund, if any, once doing this?

The Internet Crime Complaint Center can be accessed through the following link: http://www.ic3.gov

Complaints that are made are referred to (generally local) law enforcement agencies that may, or may not, conduct an investigation. Whether any action is taken on a complaint depends on the agency involved, its resources and the severity of the crime.

It will be the trademark holder who is most likely to move forward with an action against the counterfeiter and the online seller of the counterfeit goods. The sale of a single counterfeit item, however, may not result in anything other than a warning notice from the trademark holder and a potential ban from the site where the item was sold. It really depends.

My feeling is that you will never see a refund, however.

 

[HopefulinTX]

The item was sold to me over four months ago and it is only a single jacket. I have combed through the feedback looking for any indication that this may have been an "operation" and there is nothing. For the most part they are selling new/used not-name-brand clothing. Seller has 100% feedback and is a "seller with highest ratings". My concern is what you have stated, since its not a huge operation and was a one time sale and just a single jacket, wasting my time filing a complaint is going to lead no where--no investigation and no refund. Should I file anyway? I am just a.) upset I was duped and b.) angry I was told I would receive refund and still have not.

 

[quincy]

The item was sold to me over four months ago and it is only a single jacket. I have combed through the feedback looking for any indication that this may have been an "operation" and there is nothing. For the most part they are selling new/used not-name-brand clothing. Seller has 100% feedback and is a "seller with highest ratings". My concern is what you have stated, since its not a huge operation and was a one time sale and just a single jacket, wasting my time filing a complaint is going to lead no where--no investigation and no refund. Should I file anyway? I am just a.) upset I was duped and b.) angry I was told I would receive refund and still have not.

a) You could file a complaint with IC3, knowing that your complaint probably has only a tiny chance of being investigated. b) You could let the seller know that you plan to file a complaint with IC3 if a refund is not sent - and if a refund is not sent, file the complaint. c) You could live with the fact that the jacket is what it is, and move on.

I do not think you have much chance of recovering your money, though, regardless of what you do. But there is always the chance that the seller will surprise you (and me), and you will receive a refund.

 

[RRevak]

The item was sold to me over four months ago and it is only a single jacket. I have combed through the feedback looking for any indication that this may have been an "operation" and there is nothing. For the most part they are selling new/used not-name-brand clothing. Seller has 100% feedback and is a "seller with highest ratings". My concern is what you have stated, since its not a huge operation and was a one time sale and just a single jacket, wasting my time filing a complaint is going to lead no where--no investigation and no refund. Should I file anyway? I am just a.) upset I was duped and b.) angry I was told I would receive refund and still have not.

OP why is this such a huge issue with you? Seriously if the faux jacket was so well done that you didn't even know until Northface themselves told you, why does it matter? You liked the jacket from the get go, you enjoyed the jacket, why is it suddenly inferior just because it isn't "real"?

 

[HopefulinTX]

It bothers me because of the fact it wasn't real and I was duped. Maybe the seller who sold it to me was duped too, I don't know--but I feel I should not be responsible for any costs incurred with buying this counterfeit item and the costs to ship it to north face just to be told it was fake.

 

[quincy]

It bothers me because of the fact it wasn't real and I was duped. Maybe the seller who sold it to me was duped too, I don't know--but I feel I should not be responsible for any costs incurred with buying this counterfeit item and the costs to ship it to north face just to be told it was fake.

Everyone gets duped at some point in their life. You are fortunate (although I am sure you don't feel that way ) that yours comes with only a $100-jacket-plus-shipping-costs loss. And that North Face returned the jacket to you. Some trademark holders will keep the counterfeits.

Good luck with whatever it is you decide to do at this point. I, personally, would have the zipper repaired locally and call it a day.