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Good Damaged in Transit: Need Advice

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MT143

Junior Member
Hi everyone,

I have a situation that I need advice on. Thanks in advance.

I recently sold some goods on ebay and shipped them international. Before shipment the buyer asked for a shipping quote, which I provided and they paid. No insurance was ever discussed or purchased; the funds the buyer paid for shipping were only enough to buy shipping. The goods were damaged in transit. The buyer claims I did not package the goods well enough but admits they can tell that Customs opened the package and it is possible the packaging was compromised at this time. I believe this claim to be false and that the buyer knows they didn't pay for insurance so I am the only other party they can collect from. I am certain I packaged the goods well enough and have shipped dozens of similar items in the past without ever having anything damaged; I used an even higher packaging standard on this item since it was traveling so far.

The buyer has completely removed the damaged goods from packaging, along with all the packaging materials, so I have no way at this time to prove how well I packaged the goods. Who is liable for the damage and what advice would you give me for proceeding with this dispute?

Thank you!
 


LdiJ

Senior Member
Hi everyone,

I have a situation that I need advice on. Thanks in advance.

I recently sold some goods on ebay and shipped them international. Before shipment the buyer asked for a shipping quote, which I provided and they paid. No insurance was ever discussed or purchased; the funds the buyer paid for shipping were only enough to buy shipping. The goods were damaged in transit. The buyer claims I did not package the goods well enough but admits they can tell that Customs opened the package and it is possible the packaging was compromised at this time. I believe this claim to be false and that the buyer knows they didn't pay for insurance so I am the only other party they can collect from. I am certain I packaged the goods well enough and have shipped dozens of similar items in the past without ever having anything damaged; I used an even higher packaging standard on this item since it was traveling so far.

The buyer has completely removed the damaged goods from packaging, along with all the packaging materials, so I have no way at this time to prove how well I packaged the goods. Who is liable for the damage and what advice would you give me for proceeding with this dispute?

Thank you!
Let this be a lesson for the future, aways charge enough shipping to cover insurance.
 

tranquility

Senior Member
In America,
§ 2-509. Risk of Loss in the Absence of Breach.

(1) Where the contract requires or authorizes the seller to ship the goods by carrier

(a) if it does not require him to deliver them at a particular destination, the risk of loss passes to the buyer when the goods are duly delivered to the carrier even though the shipment is under reservation (Section 2-505); but
(b) if it does require him to deliver them at a particular destination and the goods are there duly tendered while in the possession of the carrier, the risk of loss passes to the buyer when the goods are there duly so tendered as to enable the buyer to take delivery.
However, even if you did not have to deliver them to the buyer, the buyer alleges breach of your duty to package them properly. I'd say you have the risk here. Since,
so I have no way at this time to prove how well I packaged the goods.
you have a problem.

At least in the U.S. Since you didn't list a state, I suspect your country may be different.
 

latigo

Senior Member
In America,


However, even if you did not have to deliver them to the buyer, the buyer alleges breach of your duty to package them properly. I'd say you have the risk here. Since,
you have a problem.

At least in the U.S. Since you didn't list a state, I suspect your country may be different.
First of all the UCC is not universal law in the United States.

Secondly, if the UCC does apply, there is a specific proviso wherein should the goods not comply with the contract enabling the buyer to reject the goods – as here – the risk of loss remains in the seller until the goods are made to conform and accepted by the buyer. (UCC § 2-510. Effect of Breach on Risk of Loss).

Moreover, in this instance it seems unreasonable to assume that the seller was not required to direct shipment to a specific destination. Thus Subsection (b) of UCC Section 2-509 and not (a) would be applicable with the risk of remaining in the seller until acceptance.
 

tranquility

Senior Member
First of all the UCC is not universal law in the United States.
True that. But, I didn't get the Louisiana vibe from the OP.
Secondly, if the UCC does apply, there is a specific proviso wherein should the goods not comply with the contract enabling the buyer to reject the goods – as here – the risk of loss remains in the seller until the goods are made to conform and accepted by the buyer. (UCC § 2-510. Effect of Breach on Risk of Loss).
As I said, the buyer is alleging a breach.
Moreover, in this instance it seems unreasonable to assume that the seller was not required to direct shipment to a specific destination. Thus Subsection (b) of UCC Section 2-509 and not (a) would be applicable with the risk of remaining in the seller until acceptance.
So, when I say, "I'd say you have the risk here" to the person who "recently sold some goods on ebay", I'm thinking we're in agreement. Right?
 

TheGeekess

Keeper of the Kraken
Hi everyone,

I have a situation that I need advice on. Thanks in advance.

I recently sold some goods on ebay and shipped them international. Before shipment the buyer asked for a shipping quote, which I provided and they paid. No insurance was ever discussed or purchased; the funds the buyer paid for shipping were only enough to buy shipping. The goods were damaged in transit. The buyer claims I did not package the goods well enough but admits they can tell that Customs opened the package and it is possible the packaging was compromised at this time. I believe this claim to be false and that the buyer knows they didn't pay for insurance so I am the only other party they can collect from. I am certain I packaged the goods well enough and have shipped dozens of similar items in the past without ever having anything damaged; I used an even higher packaging standard on this item since it was traveling so far.

The buyer has completely removed the damaged goods from packaging, along with all the packaging materials, so I have no way at this time to prove how well I packaged the goods. Who is liable for the damage and what advice would you give me for proceeding with this dispute?

Thank you!
The Great Don Lancaster would tell you to give a full refund. Insurance protects the seller. :cool:
 

MT143

Junior Member
Lesson learned. Thanks for the dicussion.

I now have a question about an insurance claim. Although no additional insurance was purchased, the carrier provided a small amount of standard insurance, which I plan on claiming. In speaking with the carrier yesterday they told me that the damaged goods and packaging would be reviewed during the investigation. But, yesterday the buyer told me they had disposed of most of the packaging. The damaged goods are on hand, just not some of the packaging. It seems that I will lose the insurance claim now that sufficient evidence supporting my adequate packaging does not exist. Do I have any recourse against the buyer for disposing evidence if I am not awarded the insurance claim?

Thanks again.
 

tranquility

Senior Member
Lesson learned. Thanks for the dicussion.

I now have a question about an insurance claim. Although no additional insurance was purchased, the carrier provided a small amount of standard insurance, which I plan on claiming. In speaking with the carrier yesterday they told me that the damaged goods and packaging would be reviewed during the investigation. But, yesterday the buyer told me they had disposed of most of the packaging. The damaged goods are on hand, just not some of the packaging. It seems that I will lose the insurance claim now that sufficient evidence supporting my adequate packaging does not exist. Do I have any recourse against the buyer for disposing evidence if I am not awarded the insurance claim?

Thanks again.
That's a good question. Here's one back, what state are you in?
 

tranquility

Senior Member
It's a good question because it is a hard one. Generally, a person must mitigate their damages. And, a seller has the right of the buyer who rejects the goods to take care of them.
§ 2-710. Seller's Incidental Damages.

Incidental damages to an aggrieved seller include any commercially reasonable charges, expenses or commissions incurred in stopping delivery, in the transportation, care and custody of goods after the buyer's breach, in connection with return or resale of the goods or otherwise resulting from the breach.
Here, the goods may have been taken care of, but the packing was not.

There is one place that would be a fact argument and that is at:
§ 2-515. Preserving Evidence of Goods in Dispute.

In furtherance of the adjustment of any claim or dispute

(a) either party on reasonable notification to the other and for the purpose of ascertaining the facts and preserving evidence has the right to inspect, test and sample the goods including such of them as may be in the possession or control of the other; and

(b) the parties may agree to a third party inspection or survey to determine the conformity or condition of the goods and may agree that the findings shall be binding upon them in any subsequent litigation or adjustment.
Now, I'm not sure if that solely has to do with the goods or can include the "evidence" in ascertaining the facts, such as the packaging. But, if the packaging would be included too, any suit would depend on if you made a "reasonable notification" of the need to keep the packaging for inspection by the carrier for insurance purposes. Your recourse would be arguing you made a reasonable notification and the buyer's destruction of the evidence caused you incidental damages.
 

Astrolink

Member
As a long time Ebayer, per Ebay policy and I believe since 2006, the seller is always responsible for insurance. Before this time, it depended on the wording in your auction.
 

Astrolink

Member
The receiver of the merchandise is supposed to immediately contact the shipper and notify them of the damage, then they schedule a pickup. I don't know what their time frame is before they would reject picking it up. If the OP used USPS International Priority or UPS, they give an automatic $100 insurance. I'm not sure of Fedex or other shippers. I've had a couple claims, but I always fully insured the packages.
 

Astrolink

Member
The actual process, at least through USPS, is for the seller to file a claim (which can be done online). USPS will contact the buyer and either pick up the item or have them bring it in. USPS has different timelines than Ebay/Paypal. USPS gives you 60 days from the date of mailing. From talking to others today, if the buyer brings the item with what packaging is left to the shipper, as long as the item is damaged, the shipper tends to just pay the $100 and keep the item. If the item is worth far more than this, the seller can ask the buyer to send it back. If the item was paid by Paypal and it's been less than 45 days since the date of sale, the BUYER will be required to pay the return shipping. This will void the $100 insurance, but the seller may come out ahead, depending on the item and amount of damage. Regardless of all these scenerios, the buyer must eventually provide a 100% refund, including the original shipping, and this is done automatically if the buyer has filed a Paypal claim. See more info on that later in the post.



Did the buyer intentionally or not break the item because they abused it or didn't want it? Good luck proving that one....as stated before, to protect yourself, the seller must buy insurance.

From the legal question, will the seller have a case to collect the $100 from buyer should the the shipper reject insurance reimbursement because of missing packing materials? From the legal info you provided, it appears so, although collecting might be complicated. Or, what if the buyer refuses to do anything? That's where Ebay/Paypal would be valuable. They will automatically refund the buyer, but not until the the seller receives the item back, and proven by a tracking number.

From the OP, it sounds like the item was worth far more than $100. Unless the item is an item that has no value damaged, I'd tend to have them send it back. The OP would have to elaborate more to make the best opinion.
 

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