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jetalc

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Colorado

I downloaded a pilot logbook software "suite" that included a program that syncs pilot hours between a Blackberry (for time in the air and on the road) with PC desktop software. The problem is that the software does not function on my Blackberry Storm (many menus in the software are inaccessible and there are many other display problems), rendering the software useless. There is a "try before you buy" trial download (which I did) but not all of the functions of the software are available unless you actually buy the software and unlock it. I bought it, unlocked it, and only then did I discover the non-functionality of the software. On the developer's website, it states "no refunds" by the way.

Within hours of paying for and downloading the full version of the software, I realized it did not work as promised, and sent an email to the developer requesting a full refund - no response. Within 72 hours, I contacted American Express stating the problem. They immediately refunded the $214.72 to my account and issued a "chargeback" to the developer of the software. It is my belief that fraud and misrepresentation was involved in the sale of the software and that I am not liable for the cost of software that does not work as advertised.

I have since received an email from the developer, stating that I owe the money, and that he will be contacting my employer, credit agencies and American Express for MY "fraudulent claim" against them.

Do I have a leg to stand on? Thanks in advance.
 


swalsh411

Senior Member
Does he know where you work? And does he have your SSN? Those both sound like idle threats to me. He can appeal the AMEX chargeback if he chooses. I would just ignore him.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Does he know where you work? And does he have your SSN? Those both sound like idle threats to me. He can appeal the AMEX chargeback if he chooses. I would just ignore him.
Depending on the software the programmer may be able to figure out the employer based on the log entries...
 

Mass_Shyster

Senior Member
Does he know where you work? And does he have your SSN? Those both sound like idle threats to me. He can appeal the AMEX chargeback if he chooses. I would just ignore him.
If the AMEX card is a corporate card, it's easy to find the employer.

The FAA only recently moved away from using a SSN as a certificate number. If they software vendor has an old copy of the pilot database, coming up with an SSN is simple.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
If the AMEX card is a corporate card, it's easy to find the employer.

The FAA only recently moved away from using a SSN as a certificate number. If they software vendor has an old copy of the pilot database, coming up with an SSN is simple.
The software based log uses the vendor's server in order to sync up the entries. Tail numbers (N Number Registrations) are easy to look up.
 

TheGeekess

Keeper of the Kraken
Software Developer said "No Refund". Did OP check to make sure the program was compatible with his BB before even downloading it? Or did he just assume that because it would work on other versions of the BB that it would work on his Storm?

That's like buying a program that's made for Win7 thinking it would work on your Win95 system in the basement.

Of course, there's always the pirating software angle.... that's why many B&M stores won't take returns on opened software.
 

Mass_Shyster

Senior Member
The software based log uses the vendor's server in order to sync up the entries. Tail numbers (N Number Registrations) are easy to look up.
I didn't get from the original post that the vendor had access to the logged information.

That being said, the fact that the tail number goes in the logbook completely escaped me. I only filled in the airports, flight time and conditions, as the tail number was always the same. (dope slap)
 

swalsh411

Senior Member
If this is the "Safelog pilot logbook software", the web page says:

Q: Which BlackBerry™ devices are supported?

A. Most modern BlackBerry™ devices will be supported. We can't tell you exactly which ones, as we are not experts in all of the models, but basically if you have a reasonably recent color screen version, it should work fine.
 

TheGeekess

Keeper of the Kraken
If this is the "Safelog pilot logbook software", the web page says:

Q: Which BlackBerry™ devices are supported?

A. Most modern BlackBerry™ devices will be supported. We can't tell you exactly which ones, as we are not experts in all of the models, but basically if you have a reasonably recent color screen version, it should work fine.
That's interesting. On the BB download page of that program, I find this little jewel:
Which BlackBerry™ devices are supported?
A. Most modern BlackBerry™ devices will be supported. We can't tell you exactly which ones, as we are not experts in all of the models, but basically if you have a reasonably recent color screen version, it should work fine. The BlackBerry™ software can be downloaded and tried in 'demo mode' before you purchase a license. In fact, since Safelog for BlackBerry™ purchases are non-refundible, we strongly encourage you to do this before you subscribe so that you are sure that it works on your device.
Safelog FAA and JAA Pilot Logbook Software for BlackBerry&trade

And their refund policy:

Question / Issue:
"I'd like to request a refund."

Solution:
Our software is sold on a try before you buy, strictly non-refundable basis. As this is a fair and well documented policy, and you are very strongly encouraged to try the software before you purchase, please understand that no refund will be forthcoming, period.

That our software is sold on a non-refundable basis is made very clear during the purchase process, and the vast, vast, vast, vast majority of our users have no problem with this.

They recognize that by offering our software this way, the user gets to see the actual software at work and decide whether to purchase it based on their own evaluation rather than the promises of some box top or advertising and that we are spared the unnecessary headaches associated with refunding something that is in effect non-returnable.

Please note that our non-refundable policy holds regardless of whether you have registered the unlock code that you have received. Once the purchase is processed, it is non-refundable. This is the standard way that software is sold over the Internet and, because of your (the user's ability) to try the software before you decide to purchase it, is fair for all involved.

Thank you for your understanding that this policy is final.
Dauntless - HelpDesk

I'd have to say OP was warned several times that this software (like all software, if you read the EULAs) may or may not work and even if it didn't, he pays his money, he takes his chances. :cool:
 
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Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
I didn't get from the original post that the vendor had access to the logged information.

That being said, the fact that the tail number goes in the logbook completely escaped me. I only filled in the airports, flight time and conditions, as the tail number was always the same. (dope slap)
Us po'folk still have to rent :(
 

Mass_Shyster

Senior Member
There is a "try before you buy" trial download (which I did) but not all of the functions of the software are available unless you actually buy the software and unlock it. I bought it, unlocked it, and only then did I discover the non-functionality of the software.
If the "non-functionality of the software" is not testable while in demo mode, you may have a chance of prevailing, however I doubt it will be through AMEX. You authorized the charge, and agreed to the terms and conditions.

The proper recourse would be a lawsuit for misrepresentation.
 
I would think that if the demo was not fully functional, and did not let you test features to see if they worked. Then after downloading it you found out those features don't work. You may be able to argue this one.

Had it been a fully functional demo, and you failed to check that these features worked before you bought it... then it would probably all be on you.

But I'm not a lawyer, so that's all just my reasoning behind it :)

I will software is almost always non-refundable. You may want to read the Requirements and Refund Policy more careful next time, as you could have asked the question.

"I noticed these functions don't work in the demo, will they work on my Blackberry XXXX if I buy the full version."
 

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