Issue with Car Dealership re: paperwork

[Joe22]

IL; car bought from dealer in SD

I purchased a used vehicle from a dealership and paid both the deposit and final purchase price with a CC over paypal, thinking it afforded me some better protection.

When I found the vehicle on the dealer's site, he did not have the title in his name yet so I put the deposit down. When the title arrived 10 days later, I paid him the balance, again with a CC.

He provided a purchase agreement for me to sign which was dated the date of the deposit and included his $99 documentation fee.

I have asked him to sign a Bill of Sale for my records indicating the date of sale for the vehicle is when I paid the remainder balance and the price of the vehicle should not include his doc fee. This is what I use to show the date and purchase price for taxes to my DMV.

He is refusing to sign it, claiming a law prohibits him from signing multiple bill of sales due to fraud. He won't explain what the fraud, especially since the VIN of the car is the same. I contacted the DMV in his state and they told me the only time it would be fraud is if it were a different vehicle or a different price, etc. My Bill of Sale shows the exact vehicle with only the total price differing by his doc fee and the date of sale being the date of final payment and not date of deposit. In my eyes, he couldn't have sold me the car on the date of deposit because he didn't legally have Title to it.

I am not sure why he won't sign this for me. When I register and title the car in my state, they care when the car was bought, not when I put down a deposit.

So my questions are: Shouldn't a Bill of Sale be when the item is sold and ownership transferred? Any ideas why he won't sign it? He even told me I "wouldn't like the outcome" if I escalated the issue so for whatever reason this is a sore spot with him.

The payment was issued thru paypal which has already denied any dispute since it is a "virtual" sale, but I am wondering if initiating a chargeback to my CC claiming he is not providing me the paperwork I need would be a viable course of action.

All I want him to do is sign the Bill of Sale that I provide. I am not asking for any money at all back. He just flat out refuses.

 

[justalayman]

He is refusing to sign it, claiming a law prohibits him from signing multiple bill of sales due to fraud. He won't explain what the fraud, especially since the VIN of the car is the same.

there can only be 1 legitimate bill of sale so if there are multiple bills of sale that a not all the same, somebody is doing something wrong.

I am not sure why he won't sign this for me. When I register and title the car in my state, they care when the car was bought, not when I put down a deposit.

the date of purchase could be the first date if the contract was struck on that date. It doesn't change the date of the sale just because you fulfilled the contract at a later date. With that said, the date of sale could also be the date you paid him in full. It would be based on the contract itself. Ya see, if you didn't pay for the car, the sale would still have taken place and he could have sued you for the money. In that case, the date of the contract would be considered to be the date of sale.

if you paid the doc fee, it is proper that it is included on the bill of sale as that was part of the transaction.

All I want him to do is sign the Bill of Sale that I provide

You have his bill of sale. Take it or leave it.


btw: if you have possession of the car, it would be a REALLY REALLY bad idea to do a charge back.

In my eyes, he couldn't have sold me the car on the date of deposit because he didn't legally have Title to it.

so, you were buying a car you knew the seller did not have a right to sell?

 

[Ladyback1]

In my eyes, he couldn't have sold me the car on the date of deposit because he didn't legally have Title to it.

You would be incorrect. Having worked at one of the leading Rental Car companies: We often sold cars out of our fleet, we sometimes sold cars from other areas fleet. Typically we sold them to car dealerships. The did not get the title until we had received payment for the car. And sometimes, depending on where the title was located (state wise), the title was not accessible for 30 days. So, you are wrong.

 

[Joe22]

You have his bill of sale. Take it or leave it.

Great customer service there.

so, you were buying a car you knew the seller did not have a right to sell?

I bought the car on the date I sent him final payment-- when it was his to sell and he had Title. He is the one putting the date of sale as a date he didn't have the title. I put a deposit down, that is all. If he never got Title, I get my deposit back. He agreed to that by accepting the deposit. If you are a resident within the dealer's state, they can sell you the car without the title in hand because they process the title; out of state they cannot. So to secure the car I had to put the deposit down. Otherwise a local buyer could have bought it first. I didn't sign his purchase agreement on the date of deposit; I signed it on the date I sent him the remainder in full. That is why my bill is correct.

With that said, the date of sale could also be the date you paid him in full.

EXACTLY my point. You see in my state you have x days to title & register. Pushing it back the 10 days makes me have to pay a back tax. That is part of the problem. It's arbitrary which one is correct as an argument can be made for both. My guess is he wants it to be the last day of the month to claim the sale in Jan and not Feb.

btw: if you have possession of the car, it would be a REALLY REALLY bad idea to do a charge back.

The chargeback would be for the doc fee, not the car. I have a problem the paperwork, not the car.

 

[justalayman]

I don't know if you can chargeback part of a credit charge.

I am presuming you signed the sales agreement with the doc fee. If so, you have no legitimate argument to not pay it.

If I was the dealer and you charged back one penny, I would have you in court as fast as I could. I would seek a rescission of the sale and damages for the time you had the car.

 

[Joe22]

I don't know if you can chargeback part of a credit charge.

I am presuming you signed the sales agreement with the doc fee. If so, you have no legitimate argument to not pay it.

If I was the dealer and you charged back one penny, I would have you in court as fast as I could. I would seek a rescission of the sale and damages for the time you had the car.

Geez louise. You sound like the dealer himself.... Take a deep breath. We're just asking for a bill of sale here not your first born.

 

[Zigner]

Geez louise. You sound like the dealer himself.... Take a deep breath. We're just asking for a bill of sale here not your first born.

I get it - you're here for people to agree with you.