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  1. #1
    U2Edge is offline Junior Member
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    Item I sold on E-bay lost in the mail. Am I responsible?

    I live in Atlanta, GA. and recently shipped a pair of tickets to a girl in North Carolina. I offered free shipping, but kindly shipped it via priority mail with tracking (NOT signature confirmation).

    I sent them out on October 3rd with my wife as a witness. On the 10th, the buyer contacted me and said she still hadn't received them. I checked the tracking number and it says it was received at her zip code on the morning of October 5th. Now she says if they don't show up, that she'll want a refund ($400+) so she can purchase more tickets before the show.

    Here is something that may influence your insight -- I had offered insurance (as I do on all of my auctions) for $2. She is the FIRST person to purchase it and I HONESTLY overlooked it, so I didn't purchase it for her. HOWEVER, that doesn't change the fact that I delivered it as promised and it was received at her end somewhere. Who is to say she isn't lying and didn't get them and just wants the money back to boot? With whom does the burden of proof lie?

    Should I refund her $2 in the meantime? Whether the tickets come back or not, I think it'd be the right thing to do, since it was something I failed to deliver on (pun not intended).

    She paid via Paypal -- and one can file "challenges" with them. I've spoken to a rep at Paypal in the meantime, just to see if I stand to lose the $400 if in fact she never gets them, and they said in past cases, if you have proof of shipping, that the seller is safe. But does the lack of insurance change that?

    Your thoughts are appreciated!
  2. #2
    janedoe23 is offline Member
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    She paid for insurance which you did not pay for upon shipping. If you would have paid the insurance then you would not be on this forum asking this question. You should be ashamed of yourself for blaming the buyer for you not insuring. Pay the money back or she can simply file an item not recieved and get all of her money back anyway.
  3. #3
    U2Edge is offline Junior Member
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    "She paid for insurance which you did not pay for upon shipping."

    Thanks for re-stating what I stated and am well aware of. It was an oversight, not an attempt to save a few bucks. If I was out to save some $$$, I would have dropped it in a 37-cent stamped envelope and shipped it.

    "If you would have paid the insurance then you would not be on this forum asking this question."

    Of this, I am well aware. That doesn't change the fact that I don't believe the burden of proof lies with me.

    "You should be ashamed of yourself for blaming the buyer for you not insuring."

    Where did I blame her for it?

    "Pay the money back or she can simply file an item not recieved and get all of her money back anyway."

    According to Paypal, she probably won't.

    I hope she finds the tickets, I really do. Not for my sake, but for hers. I can see it both ways -- why am I to be held responsible for something lost in the mail (when supposedly the seller is never responsible if he/she can prove the item was shipped), but then again, why is she to be held responsible if it is my fault I overlooked the insurance (simple mistake when I had the best of intentions by not charging for shipping and sending it not only priority mail, but PRIORITY MAIL WITH tracking).
  4. #4
    Veronica1228 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by U2Edge
    "She paid for insurance which you did not pay for upon shipping."

    Thanks for re-stating what I stated and am well aware of. It was an oversight, not an attempt to save a few bucks. If I was out to save some $$$, I would have dropped it in a 37-cent stamped envelope and shipped it.

    "If you would have paid the insurance then you would not be on this forum asking this question."

    Of this, I am well aware. That doesn't change the fact that I don't believe the burden of proof lies with me.

    "You should be ashamed of yourself for blaming the buyer for you not insuring."

    Where did I blame her for it?

    "Pay the money back or she can simply file an item not recieved and get all of her money back anyway."

    According to Paypal, she probably won't.

    I hope she finds the tickets, I really do. Not for my sake, but for hers. I can see it both ways -- why am I to be held responsible for something lost in the mail (when supposedly the seller is never responsible if he/she can prove the item was shipped), but then again, why is she to be held responsible if it is my fault I overlooked the insurance (simple mistake when I had the best of intentions by not charging for shipping and sending it not only priority mail, but PRIORITY MAIL WITH tracking).
    In my opinion, you owe the buyer the full amount if she doesn't get the tickets. She paid for a service which you failed to provide. The fact that it was unintentional is irrelevent. If you had only conducted your business in the manner expected, none of this would be an issue. Refunding the $2 is lame and is not going to correct the problem if the buyer never receives the item.

    Take responsibility for your actions (or should I say INACTIONS?).
  5. #5
    jpritchett81 is offline Member
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    Refund $2???

    Maybe I'm not reading this right but I could have sworn your post states the buyer paid for the insurance and you sent the tickets w/o insuring it anyway. How on earth do you think it's fair that the buyer must eat the $400???
  6. #6
    U2Edge is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpritchett81
    How on earth do you think it's fair that the buyer must eat the $400???
    Because the seller is NEVER responsible when he/she has proof of shipping.

    So my question is, does my oversight change that precedent?
  7. #7
    jpritchett81 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by U2Edge
    Because the seller is NEVER responsible when he/she has proof of shipping.

    So my question is, does my oversight change that precedent?
    But they have proof of purchasing the insurance thru you....they can't make an insurance claim b/c YOU didn't purchase it on the back end. A refund of $2 isn't going to remedy the situation.
  8. #8
    janedoe23 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by U2Edge
    Because the seller is NEVER responsible when he/she has proof of shipping.
    So my question is, does my oversight change that precedent?

    I'd like to know who ever gave you that impression?



    1.) You sell a buyer tickets.
    2.) The buyer pays for the tickets and INSURES them.
    3.) You ship them without insuring.
    4.) Buyer emails you and states she never got them.
    5.) You immediately file a claim with the post office so that she can get her money back but oops you never purchased insurance.


    I understand that it might have been a mistake on your part but the fact is she paid for insurance and you ARE fully responsible for making that error. Turn the tables buddy, I'm sure you would be pretty angry if this happened to you.
  9. #9
    divgradcurl is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by U2Edge
    Because the seller is NEVER responsible when he/she has proof of shipping.
    As others have noted, where did you get this idea?

    If this ever went to court -- and it could, $400 isn't chump change, and the two states aren't THAT far apart -- the fact that the you offered insurance and the buyer paid for insurance would almost certainly be seen by the court as an admission that YOU were accepting responsibility for the shipment.

    So my question is, does my oversight change that precedent?
    What "precedent?"
  10. #10
    jpritchett81 is offline Member
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    What ticks me off is that the OP is TRYING to find every loophole out of this.....when really this was his fault. How was she to know that you weren't going to send the tickets insured when that's what she paid for. I don't see anything the buyer did wrong and she doesn't deserve to be out $400.

    Why do you feel you're entitled to keep the $400?
  11. #11
    ablessin is offline Member
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    well, now wait a minute,.... the SELLER tracked the item and it states the item WAS delivered.
    Why should seller refund? Yeah, insurance was purchased, but according to tracking, delivery was made. how does the seller know the buyer isn't just trying to get the money back?? Some one in the house has those tickets.
    I would be very leary of refunding the buyer the money. Sounds kind of fishy.

    In the future, you do need to watch closely... it's kind of easy to miss that the buyer paid for insurance. I missed it once myself. Luckilyall went smoothly.

    I don't blame you for not wanting to refund, I'd be hesitant to do so myself.

    Additionally, many sellers state item not liable - it should be the buyer to prove item not received and since you have a receipt that shows delivery.

    I just think somethingg sounds fishy and as a seller I can appreciate your predicament
  12. #12
    Veronica1228 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ablessin
    well, now wait a minute,.... the SELLER tracked the item and it states the item WAS delivered.
    Why should seller refund? Yeah, insurance was purchased, but according to tracking, delivery was made. how does the seller know the buyer isn't just trying to get the money back?? Some one in the house has those tickets.
    I would be very leary of refunding the buyer the money. Sounds kind of fishy.

    In the future, you do need to watch closely... it's kind of easy to miss that the buyer paid for insurance. I missed it once myself. Luckilyall went smoothly.

    I don't blame you for not wanting to refund, I'd be hesitant to do so myself.

    Additionally, many sellers state item not liable - it should be the buyer to prove item not received and since you have a receipt that shows delivery.

    I just think somethingg sounds fishy and as a seller I can appreciate your predicament
    Where does the OP say that the item was delivered to the buyer? He says it was delivered to her ZIP CODE. That's a different thing. Yes, the post office may have messed up and lost it, but that's why the buyer purchased the insurance. I still say that the buyer is entitled to a full refund.
  13. #13
    ablessin is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veronica1228
    Where does the OP say that the item was delivered to the buyer? He says it was delivered to her ZIP CODE. That's a different thing. Yes, the post office may have messed up and lost it, but that's why the buyer purchased the insurance. I still say that the buyer is entitled to a full refund.

    Thanks, you're right - it does say delivered to zip code. Wow- that is pretty generic.

    well, I would still be leary to refund. How does OP know she didn't get them and wants the $$ back. Maybe she needs spending money for the concert
  14. #14
    janedoe23 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ablessin
    Thanks, you're right - it does say delivered to zip code. Wow- that is pretty generic.

    well, I would still be leary to refund. How does OP know she didn't get them and wants the $$ back. Maybe she needs spending money for the concert

    Yes , it does sound fishy but it all comes down to the seller not holding up his end of the bargain. If the tickets were lost then all the buyer had to do was notify the seller that a claim needs to be made but in this case a claim cannot be made because of a mistake that the seller made. Unfortunately, this is one of them stories where we will never know what truely happened.

    As I stated before the OP needs to turn the tables and really think about what if this happened to him and what solution would make him happy.

    Quote Originally Posted by U2Edge
    "Pay the money back or she can simply file an item not recieved and get all of her money back anyway."

    According to Paypal, she probably won't.
    How in the heck will Paypal know she won't file a claim?
  15. #15
    jpritchett81 is offline Member
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    Ok the tickets were shipped I'm assuming USPS. When you get a tracking/confirmation #......it should tell you the full address the tickets were sent to......not just a zip code. Same goes for Fedex or UPS.

    I'm curious now what the tracking # is......just to see what he's talking about.

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