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PayPal overrides Ebay return policy, among numerous issues

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rschou

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? New York

In November my girlfriend sold her used Canon DSLR on Ebay. The purchase went through, was delivered fine, funds were received through PayPal and everything seemed good.

One month and 2 weeks later, the buyer claims that the camera he received was broken. Ebay has a policy stating that defective merchandise can be returned within 30 days of receipt (obviously allowing the seller time to test the product and see if it were broken). The seller was outside the policy and we denied him a return, Ebay agreed. In addition, the only pictures that the buyer could provide showing the camera was broken was on the very day that he requested a return, so again 6 weeks later. I'm guessing that if you spend $1000 on a camera that you would test it much sooner that 6 weeks after receipt. The whole story seemed fishy since I know it worked when we sent it, then he doesn't file a claim until that much time passes and cannot prove that it did not work upon receipt. Again, Ebay DENIES him a return.

The buyer also files a claim with PayPal, the company that the transaction went through. We submit tons of paperwork showing the ebay policy, that he can't prove the camera was even broken within the policy time (he said he erased all pictures taken before that date) and he only submits 1 sentence saying something close to "the camera does not function as described and has a bluish tint to all pictures." PayPal forces us to accept a return despite the fact that Ebay already ruled in our favor and was willing to get on the phone with them (aren't they owned by the same company?). Paypal says they don't believe him and will let him return the camera. They pull our funds, so we have no choice but to accept the return.

We get the camera back and its totally fine. I've taken numerous pictures and video with it and cannot recreate the effect that he was showing. I'm not sure if it was a bad lens, bad memory card, or his lack of knowledge on how to use the camera (or that he made it all up) but it works. 100%. Paypal now says that they will not make the transaction go back through (us sending him the camera) nor reimburse us for cancelling a sale that they had no right overriding.

I'm obviously pissed about this for several reasons:
1. PayPal is merely a money transfer service. It's basically an online credit card. How can they overrule a return policy that the actual seller and buyer have to agree to in selling on Ebay? What right do they have to overrule a return policy? It's like saying if I buy a TV from Bestbuy and their return policy if 15 days and then try to return it in 20 days that Visa could then step in a force them to accept the return by pulling their money. That doesn't happen. This literally is not PayPal's business. They don't provide a means to sell items, they provide a means to transfer money.

2. Despite us saying that we did not want to accept a return even if the camera worked, we were force to pay for the return shipping. Now we lost out on the shipping cost and the auction fee. We shouldn't be financially liable for Paypal cancelling a perfectly good transaction (the camera freakin works) that directly defies Ebay's policy. What laws protect me here?

Please provide help. I feel like Paypal took advantage of us, specifically because there are class actions law suits against them in cases there buyers were taken advantage of. It just feels like they're over compensating now. I don't understand how a company that has any sense of doing the right thing would rule against us, and at the very least not compensate us the money they unjustly forced us to spend. What can we do
 


Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
The how of it is a bit irrelevant since you have the camera now and don't have the money.

Tell her to sell the camera again since it's in perfect condition.
 

rschou

Junior Member
Thank you for responding.

My question is really what protections do I have from PayPal based upon Ebay's return policy? Is there any consumer protection laws that would help me? It doesn't make sense that a company that is only transferring money can override the site that runs and presides over the auction. Isn't there some kind of legal protection? How can PayPal legally do this?

I can sell it again, but then it would most likely be on Ebay, and then I'd have to use Paypal again, and I still lose money. I'd prefer not to do all of that and am hoping that I can continue fighting this. If you have other advice please help out.

Thanks
 

quincy

Senior Member
Thank you for responding.

My question is really what protections do I have from PayPal based upon Ebay's return policy? Is there any consumer protection laws that would help me? It doesn't make sense that a company that is only transferring money can override the site that runs and presides over the auction. Isn't there some kind of legal protection? How can PayPal legally do this?

I can sell it again, but then it would most likely be on Ebay, and then I'd have to use Paypal again, and I still lose money. I'd prefer not to do all of that and am hoping that I can continue fighting this. If you have other advice please help out.

Thanks
Don't sell it on eBay. Run an ad in a local paper. Let the interested buyer inspect it and try it out. Accept cash or money order.

Good luck.
 

FarmerJ

Senior Member
If you used other more local ads like C List your free to meet potential buyers at a local police precinct stations lobby if your concerned about it being stolen from you while showing it to a prospect other wise I guess if your going to continue to sell on eb you may want to reconsider what methods of payment you will accept.
 

xylene

Senior Member
Paypal affords the buyer (and seller too) many protections and benefits.

One buyer benefit is an enhanced purchase protection policy above the standard ebay terms.

You are totally free to not accept Paypal on ebay

Paypal and eBay were the same company for a long time, however they have split and are separate companies. Even when they were one, they had separate policies and review mechanisms.

Selling expensive delicate items can be a big hassle.

Finally, re your bestbuy-visa example... um that can and does happen... all the time. Savvy consumers use credit card purchase protection that exceed return policies. It is one benefit to consider when selecting which credit card to use.
 

single317dad

Senior Member
Welcome to the world of selling on eBay and accepting Paypal as your preferred payment method. If you choose to continue this activity, prepare to have more money taken from you in manners you will deem unfair.

Count yourself lucky that you actually got your camera back in one piece. Not every seller is so fortunate.

It's like saying if I buy a TV from Bestbuy and their return policy if 15 days and then try to return it in 20 days that Visa could then step in a force them to accept the return by pulling their money. That doesn't happen.
Actually, it can happen. Every merchant agrees to terms with Visa, Mastercard, and others to abide by their rules and policies. There are absolutely situations where you might get a refund for something outside of the stated return period because your credit card company steps in.

If you feel this buyer has damaged you, you are free to sue him, though I doubt the return on that investment would leave you feeling whole.
 

OHRoadwarrior

Senior Member
At one time or another we all get the shaft. Lick your wounds and move on. I was building a mint collection of books and had several times a fraud was perpetuated in descriptions. In fact, one seller who had some key books I needed made it worth a trip to see the books in person and confirm their condition. With a thousand dollars on the table for 4 books, he changed the auctions to buy it now and I bought them immediately, taking them home so I would not get ripped off on antique books that expensive.
 

FlyingRon

Senior Member
I don't know where you're getting your information from. Ebay has NO return policy. Ebay is a VENUE and they will NOT enforce such. They recommend sellers offer a 30 day policy for best results but it has no significance beyond being a recommendation. All your ebay determination does is dismiss a complaint and allow you to get some of your ebay fees back. Ebay can't force the buyer or seller to do anything. They are NOT a party to the transaction.

Ebay and Paypal are no longer the same company (not that it makes much of a difference). Your rules for accepting paypal payments have ALWAYS been more stringent. Further if the buyer backs his Paypal charge up with a credit card you have that to deal with as well.
 

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