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Real Python Leather Phone and Macbook cases without certificate.

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rtuszik

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? N.Y.

Hello there,
I am situated in Germany and have ordered 2 Cases, one Macbook and one iPhone case from a seller in New York. The are handcrafted cases made out of python leather. In total, I paid 218$. They sent out the cases and they arrived in Germany. However, they are now stuck with the German customs. They ask for the CITES certificate that would allow them to export real python leather. After requesting such certificate from the seller, they sent me a certificate allowing them to import the leather from Thailand into the U.S. however, the German customs still want the CITES certificate. I emailed the seller 3 more times and got no answer. In my latest, fourth email, I forebode that I will reverse my payment if he doesn't answer me within the next 48 hours to give me a full refund.
Today, he answered saying, that receiving a CITES certificate would take 30-60 days. He offered to refund me 60% of the total price as they would lose the product and therefore can not refund the whole 100%.
What is the legal situation here? Is there anyway I can get my full refund? Is it his fault for exporting to Germany without having such certificate? On their website, they clearly state that they ship internationally.
Thank you in advance!
Robin
 


adjusterjack

Senior Member
On their website, they clearly state that they ship internationally.
Which means absolutely nothing if your purchase contract didn't specify that you would get a CITES certificate.

You have no "legal" leverage. It was something you should have made sure of before paying.

I suggest you do the chargeback with your credit card company while you are still within the deadline to do it.

The seller is just stalling you until it's too late to do that.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Which means absolutely nothing if your purchase contract didn't specify that you would get a CITES certificate.

You have no "legal" leverage. It was something you should have made sure of before paying.
You're 100% wrong on this part of your answer. An analogy would be selling a car that you don't have title to. If the seller cannot legally sell the item, and if the buyer doesn't receive, then it's not the fault of the buyer and the buyer is due a refund of the full amount.

I suggest you do the chargeback with your credit card company while you are still within the deadline to do it.

The seller is just stalling you until it's too late to do that.
On this, I emphatically agree.
 

adjusterjack

Senior Member
You're 100% wrong on this part of your answer. An analogy would be selling a car that you don't have title to. If the seller cannot legally sell the item, and if the buyer doesn't receive, then it's not the fault of the buyer and the buyer is due a refund of the full amount.
And how many time a day do we read about people buying cars without titles and getting screwed?

In this case, as with car purchases, it's up to the buyer to do his homework before buying.

"Legal" rights are one thing, but reality is another. Is OP going to travel to NY to sue for $218? (That's rhetorical.)
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
And how many time a day do we read about people buying cars without titles and getting screwed?

In this case, as with car purchases, it's up to the buyer to do his homework before buying.

"Legal" rights are one thing, but reality is another. Is OP going to travel to NY to sue for $218? (That's rhetorical.)
I don't disagree - that's why I agreed with the OP trying to resolve this through his credit card company.
 

janiekwong

Junior Member
Which means absolutely nothing if your purchase contract didn't specify that you would get a CITES certificate.

You have no "legal" leverage. It was something you should have made sure of before paying.

I suggest you do the chargeback with your credit card company while you are still within the deadline to do it.

The seller is just stalling you until it's too late to do that.
I strongly agree with this...
 

quincy

Senior Member
There is a massive illegal trade in products made from pythons and other endangered species which is why exports/imports are so closely regulated by CITES.

The US prohibits, under their Endangered Species Act, the importation of a whole list of creatures that are threatened or endangered, including pythons. Although I am not surprised that someone from Germany wants python cases (Germany is a major importer of python goods), I am sort of surprised that the python cases are said to be from New York.

The python skins, often shipped out of Indonesia, Malaysia and Vietnam, are routinely seized at US Customs.

Here is one of many cases filed by animal rights organizations against importers, VIVA! International Voice for Animals v. Adidas Promotional Retail Operations, Inc.: http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=17180361477325189299&q=export+of+endangered+python+products&hl=en&as_sdt=2006

I question the legality of the entire sale of the python products.
 
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