Software Sale - But Seller kept a copy

[Thanatos0042]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Texas

So I bought a piece of software from a guy in Maryland (he is still in Maryland)

The software requires a license # to work and is designed for online use (chat software)

Fast forward to a couple of years later and I have found out he is now setting up a new site, using the same software he sold to me.

He kept a copy, in the mean time, he also never provided me a re-installable copy of the software so when the host it was already installed on died, I was never able to reinstall the software and he vanished into the wind.

Do I have any recourse here?

 

[Zigner]

How do you know he's using your license for the chat software?

 

[Thanatos0042]

You haven't been able to buy the software in over a decade. I'm pretty confident he didn't own 2 licenses. Add this to the fact he is using the copyright claim for the domain he sold me, not his new domain, same graphics for the domain he sold me, not his new domain and also the same layout and chat rooms that he used to have set up on the old domain and are now set up on the new. He basically has a copy of the old site he sold, and is using it for his new site.

so, I have no doubt, he is using the same license file...it doesn't care what domain it runs on, it doesn't check that...the license # just checks to see if it's valid with the software it was assigned to, so it is the kind of thing that could end itself to being copied.

 

[justalayman]

So a couple of years ago...

You speculate this and that...

As to his copyright claim; did he sell his copyrights to whatever you claim he is using
Now when he sold you the domain name?

Did he sell you the copyrights to the graphics you say he is still using?

I don't know what, specifically, you purchased but unless he transferred the copyrights to his graphics and anything else you are talking about, you need to refer to your written contract to see if he transferred his rights to you, sold you a license, or realize that you may possibly be infringing on his copyrights.

 

[adjusterjack]

Do I have any recourse here?

Depends.

What do you have in writing from the seller as to what you were buying?

 

[Thanatos0042]

So he sold me the domain name/domain, everything to do with the domain, everything that was on the server, but not the server itself (the server itself was a rent and the graphics he is using is the one from the site he sold me), the software and the accompanying license.

and that was as detailed as the deal went.

And your right, it is speculation about the license, but I'm right with regards to it, he didn't have 2, only the one.

It was actually a concern of mine when I later tried to reinstall the software and the compressed file was corrupt and unrecoverable and his email addresses and phone number were all invalid.

 

[justalayman]

So he didn't specifically transfer the copyrights to any graphics or anything else that would have copyright protection? Then guess what; you don't own the copyrights to the works you spoke of. Did he even license them to you?

 

[Thanatos0042]

Well, he sold me all the files on the server, that would have included those graphics on the server, which were associated with that domain. But you know what? I don't really care about the graphics. I never used them because they were tacky to begin with and I'm pretty sure (again) he doesn't have any copyright on them. The creation date on the graphics were from before he even owned the site, so he might have just bought them when he bought the site from whoever had it before him. I doubt there's any actual copyright paperwork filed for anything on this site.

All I really cared about was the chat software, that he stiffed me out of anyway by not providing a usable copy of the install file.

 

[justalayman]

Well, he sold me all the files on the server, that would have included those graphics on the server, which were associated with that domain. But you know what? I don't really care about the graphics. I never used them because they were tacky to begin with and I'm pretty sure (again) he doesn't have any copyright on them. The creation date on the graphics were from before he even owned the site, so he might have just bought them when he bought the site from whoever had it before him. I doubt there's any actual copyright paperwork filed for anything on this site.

All I really cared about was the chat software, that he stiffed me out of anyway by not providing a usable copy of the install file.

So you have no idea whether he owned the rights to any copyrighted material or not (and that wouldn't be limited to graphics)

As to him selling you what was in the files; the copyright office has this to say about transferring copyrights;

§ 204 . Execution of transfers of copyright ownership

(a) A transfer of copyright ownership, other than by operation of law, is not valid unless an instrument of conveyance, or a note or memorandum of the transfer, is in writing and signed by the owner of the rights conveyed or such owner's duly authorized agent.

So what you're telling me is he transferred absolutely no copyrights to you.

Did he execute a license? I'm guessing not.
So let me guess; he transferred a digital copy and included the license number in an email. You never recieved anything one would typically recieve when purchasing legal copies of software, right?

 

[quincy]

Well, he sold me all the files on the server, that would have included those graphics on the server, which were associated with that domain. But you know what? I don't really care about the graphics. I never used them because they were tacky to begin with and I'm pretty sure (again) he doesn't have any copyright on them. The creation date on the graphics were from before he even owned the site, so he might have just bought them when he bought the site from whoever had it before him. I doubt there's any actual copyright paperwork filed for anything on this site.

All I really cared about was the chat software, that he stiffed me out of anyway by not providing a usable copy of the install file.

There is not enough information provided in your posts to determine whether any rights have been infringed. A lot depends on the software licensing. It appears from your posts, however, that the guy in Maryland infringed on the copyrights of the software developer when he continued to use the software that he sold to you. You potentially could be viewed as a contributory infringer if the fellow sold you a copy of his software and he retained the original.

Generally a purchaser of software can legally make a backup copy for their own personal use but the purchaser of the software must keep the backup with the original. If one is sold, the other either must be sold with it or it must be destroyed. In other words, there can only one owner of the purchased software although the owner of the software can make a backup copy to keep with the original.

Because the guy in Maryland "vanished into the wind," and because you might also be guilty of infringement, what you might want to do is start all over with your website. Purchase your own domain name, purchase your own software and license your own graphics. I do not see that you have much in the way of legal recourse.

 

[Thanatos0042]

only insofar he transferred the domain ownership to me and transferred the server account to me.

The company that wrote the software went out of business long ago, so no registration to transfer there.

As for the sale, we exchanged emails and texts on what was all included.

As far as copyright selling, as I said, he sold me everything on the server, which was the graphics that went along with the domain.

He claimed it was all his to sell and there wasn't any information to indicate otherwise when I took ownership of it all.

Anyway, when I took possession of the server, it was the working website and a tar.gz compressed file I thought was the install zip for the software. Turned out to be an unzippable file due to 'corruption' and later I figured out, it wasn't actually the right install file for the software anyway, it was a wholly different version of the software.

 

[Thanatos0042]

...

Well, except for the domain name, which he transferred ownership to me directly from the Registrar, so that there isn't a dispute about.

But 3 months after I got the server and software, the hard drive on it crashed and was un-recoverable. It resulted in a total loss of everything on it, I had a backup of some stuff, like the license file and such, but it didn't do me any good. I had a copy of what I thought was the install file.

and that's what I thought, thanks for the information.

And I think that pretty much wraps the subject up for me - appreciate the response and feedback.

 

[quincy]

Well, except for the domain name, which he transferred ownership to me directly from the Registrar, so that there isn't a dispute about.

But 3 months after I got the server and software, the hard drive on it crashed and was un-recoverable. It resulted in a total loss of everything on it, I had a backup of some stuff, like the license file and such, but it didn't do me any good. I had a copy of what I thought was the install file.

and that's what I thought, thanks for the information.

And I think that pretty much wraps the subject up for me - appreciate the response and feedback.

I hope you did not pay the guy in Maryland too much.

I wish you better luck with your next website.

We all appreciate the thanks, so thank you.

 

[justalayman]

Quincy, the infringement I was speaking of was op possibly
Infringing on works owned by the seller (graphics and any other works that might be owned by the seller as opposed to being part of the operating software) rather than the owner of the operating software op is miffed about. That would mean op would risk being sued for infringement by the seller. Op should consider all possibilities if he is considering opening the can of worms. I know if I was the seller and the op sued me, I would look to any possible defensive action available to me. If op has infringed on any copyrights owned by seller, it would work well to give op a reason to consider just walking away.

Now that you brought it up though, I wonder if seller even had a legal copy of the software let alone purported to sell op the operating license. Obviously with software it is often quite easy to steal and propagate illegal copies of much software. The fact the originator of the software seems to be out of the picture, it makes it less likely an illegal copy would be problematic to use.

Anyway, with op's new info I suspect even if he had a legal and valid license and copy of
The software he would not be able to prevail in court should be sue. If op used the software for some period of time but lost it due to his server crash, it proves he did have a copy. Since the seller was legally obligated to divest himself of any copies, he could simply claim he transferred everything to op and what op did with it is out of sellers hands. Given the original sale was "years ago", I suspect proving anything would be problematic.

 

[adjusterjack]

Well, except for the domain name, which he transferred ownership to me directly from the Registrar, so that there isn't a dispute about.

But 3 months after I got the server and software, the hard drive on it crashed and was un-recoverable. It resulted in a total loss of everything on it, I had a backup of some stuff, like the license file and such, but it didn't do me any good. I had a copy of what I thought was the install file.

You keep saying he did this and you did that but you never really answered my question:

What do you have in writing from the seller as to what you were buying?

And I think that pretty much wraps the subject up for me

Then I guess there's no need to answer my question.