Used car dealer failed to refund deposit (no contract signed)

[SonicCloud]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NY

I left a $500 deposit with a used car dealer to "hold" a car from being sold. I had them send me an email saying they would refund the $500 if I didn't purchase the car. I called to cancel my interest a few days later telling them to refund my money. 9 months later, I discover the money has still not been returned so I try to make contact with them and after 6 voicemails, I talk to the owner who basically said too much time has passed to refund it. Since i have an email from them stating they would refund the money if I didn't buy the car, will small claims give me the win? The owner is making various arguments such as too much time has passed, why did it take so long to ask for it back, and so on... Will his arguments hold any weight in small claims court or are they smoke and mirrors? To me this is a simple matter of he made an agreement and didn't follow through, regardless of the reasons.

Also, I never signed any contracts with the company or employees. It was done only on the phone and somewhat via email (e.g. the terms of the refund were emailed to me). Therefore nothing was signed that could be used against my position. I've researched the contract by email possibility and found NY state case law that indicates an email likewise serves as a contract but the case was with respect to a finance sector (investment) matter and not dealing with a used car dealer.

Lastly, what are my chances of the court awarding me a refund on the cost of suing them? (the used car dealer would pay for legal costs).

I want to go after these guys but I don't want to waste my time if there's no chance since I live half the country away!

Thanks.

 

[tranquility]

There does not seem a legal prohibition to winning. The problem will be proof of everything. I'd sue. Although, I wouldn't have sat on my rights that long either.

 

[SonicCloud]

There does not seem a legal prohibition to winning. The problem will be proof of everything. I'd sue. Although, I wouldn't have sat on my rights that long either.

The "waited too long" argument is the only thing that is concerning me. Honestly, I expect people to be responsible and do what they said they would do. Incidentally, I tried using the BBB and he lied saying I never asked for the refund. I only have a phone bill record showing I called back a few days later but I didn't record the call. Also, I naturally expected the refund to take some time. I got very busy with my side business (in addition to my full time job) and I came to notice this in Feb 2016 while I was consolidating all my financial records (looking for charges I didn't recognize, etc...).

I don't even want to go down the road of "it took too long" because I personally don't believe it has any bearing on the case BUT I don't know if the court will make it an issue.

 

[tranquility]

I don't even want to go down the road of "it took too long" because I personally don't believe it has any bearing on the case BUT I don't know if the court will make it an issue.

The equitable defense to suit would be laches. The legal maxim is "Vigilantibus et non dorminentibus jura subveniunt." Loosely translated, equity aids the vigilant, not those who slumber (On their rights.).

That does not make it a loser, but, if the car company can claim it is very hard to gather information to prove they paid you back, that would be the claim.

 

[Zigner]

The equitable defense to suit would be laches. The legal maxim is "Vigilantibus et non dorminentibus jura subveniunt." Loosely translated, equity aids the vigilant, not those who slumber (On their rights.).

That does not make it a loser, but, if the car company can claim it is very hard to gather information to prove they paid you back, that would be the claim.

Laches after 9 months for a business isn't going to be a viable defense in my opinion.

 

[SonicCloud]

Laches after 9 months for a business isn't going to be a viable defense in my opinion.

I would think that a business would need to keep records for far longer. The IRS has document/record retention requirements in case they get audited, correct? I believe it spans well into several years. Therefore, they should have such records.

 

[tranquility]

Laches after 9 months for a business isn't going to be a viable defense in my opinion.

It would depend on the facts. This does not seem like it was a well documented "deposit". I think both sides are going to have some problem trying to prove things up. But if a guy who took the informal deposit in is gone and there was no real record of it, we'll see. The OP has an email. What does it say exactly? Did it change the agreement he had when the money was put down? Did the OP ask within the time period contemplated by the parties?

Laches is not just a passage of time, but a unfair difficulty in proving your position because of the passage. No one is going to remember what happened this long ago. Without a more through written record, the business is put at a disadvantage over the guy who was too busy to handle things. The judge would probably not find laches, he will just probably (If he feels the defendant unfairly denied a chance to defend.) decide the OP has not proven his case.

 

[SonicCloud]

It would depend on the facts. This does not seem like it was a well documented "deposit". I think both sides are going to have some problem trying to prove things up. But if a guy who took the informal deposit in is gone and there was no real record of it, we'll see. The OP has an email. What does it say exactly? Did it change the agreement he had when the money was put down? Did the OP ask within the time period contemplated by the parties?

Laches is not just a passage of time, but a unfair difficulty in proving your position because of the passage. No one is going to remember what happened this long ago. Without a more through written record, the business is put at a disadvantage over the guy who was too busy to handle things. The judge would probably not find laches, he will just probably (If he feels the defendant unfairly denied a chance to defend.) decide the OP has not proven his case.

The deposit was made by them charging my credit card. There's definitely evidence of the charge. They did email me a digital photograph of the credit card transaction receipt printed on thermal paper. Also, I had them email me a statement saying "You will be refunded the $500 if you don't end up buying the car." from their email address before I told them I wasn't interested anymore. I never asked about a time period. I would think with an email 3 sentences long stating they will give me a refund if I don't purchase, plus a receipt, plus a credit card record would be more than sufficient to prove my point. So even with this I guess there's uncertainty.

 

[STEPHAN]

How are you going to prove that the e-mail came from them. Give me 2 minutes and I send you an e-mail from anybody you want.

 

[tranquility]

I'm not saying it is not enough. Like Zigner, I think a business should not be unfairly burdened by record keeping of something like this. Yet, there seems a certain amount of casualness to everything and you did wait a fairly long time to deal with the issue. But, a deposit is not income until it is forfeited and you are not the IRS. Besides, it might take the testimony of the guy who took your money to know what it was for. That person may be long gone. Car lots are legion for salesmen turnover. Without knowing all the facts, it is impossible to guess the outcome. (Even with all the facts.) I think you have enough to sue. But, that and a couple of bucks will get you a coffee from McDonalds.

 

[SonicCloud]

How are you going to prove that the e-mail came from them. Give me 2 minutes and I send you an e-mail from anybody you want.

E-Mail headers and IP addresses. The email they sent came from their GMail account. It's a bit hard to forge records still found on Google's servers. I could make the same argument for a printed piece of paper. They could deny they ever wrote one and that I forged a signature. It would seem the hypothetical case of a forged signed paper document would be far easier to fake than a Gmail based email.

 

[SonicCloud]

I'm not saying it is not enough. Like Zigner, I think a business should not be unfairly burdened by record keeping of something like this. Yet, there seems a certain amount of casualness to everything and you did wait a fairly long time to deal with the issue. But, a deposit is not income until it is forfeited and you are not the IRS. Besides, it might take the testimony of the guy who took your money to know what it was for. That person may be long gone. Car lots are legion for salesmen turnover. Without knowing all the facts, it is impossible to guess the outcome. (Even with all the facts.) I think you have enough to sue. But, that and a couple of bucks will get you a coffee from McDonalds.

I don't disagree with you about business burdens since I run a small business myself. However, don't they have an obligation to return the $500 even if, hypothetically, I never asked for it back? They sold the car to someone else. Shouldn't THEY be responsible for tracking all the deposits they are holding and refunding to all customers who did not buy the car? Why is the burden on me?

 

[Zigner]

I don't disagree with you about business burdens since I run a small business myself. However, don't they have an obligation to return the $500 even if, hypothetically, I never asked for it back? They sold the car to someone else. Shouldn't THEY be responsible for tracking all the deposits they are holding and refunding to all customers who did not buy the car? Why is the burden on me?

The burden's on you because you want the money.

 

[SonicCloud]

The burden's on you because you want the money.

So a company has no responsibility to live up to the statement they sent me? (e.g. refund the money if I don't by the car?)

Even without the email, how is this not just theft?

 

[Zigner]

So a company has no responsibility to live up to the statement they sent me? (e.g. refund the money if I don't by the car?)

Even without the email, how is this not just theft?

It's a contractual (civil) matter. If you want the money, ask for it.