15 yr.old daughter asked to take lie detector test

[olliesbaby]

What is the name of your state? ohio
my 15 yr old daughter was accused of stealing a cell phone in her school.the only proof they have of this is another student who said my daughter did and that girl whose reputation as a trouble maker is no better then my daughters had just as much oppertunity to take it as my daughter did as well as several other girls who where in the room at the time. there is a police offer on duty at this high school full time and she has advised me that they will be giving my daughter and her friend a voice stress test at the end of this month.now am i wrong or aren't they suppose to get my permission seeing as she is a minor to give her this test? and even if i consent they are not allowed to use it in court if it shows she's guilty and i cant use it if it shows her innocence.i have been advised by friends and family not to let her do this yet on the other hand she wants to because she says she did not do this.as for her rep she isnt known as a thief just for getting mouth with the adults which is wrong but she has left a bad impression on some of the staff and the officer.
thanks

p.s. my daughter allowed them to search her bookpack which they did and also told them to search her locker which they did not as soon as they came to her about this.

 

[Mike101]

If it was my daughter she wouldn't be taking any test.
In my experience in law enforcement any kind of lie detector test can come back with an inaccurate result. If the officer wants the subject to be guilty and the test shows the subject to be deceptive, then the test is accurate. If the officer wants the subject to be guilty and the test shows the subject to be truthful then the test results are wrong and they will usually be disregarded and the investigation will follow a different path.

 

[olliesbaby]

thanks mike and i agree with you and i am not going to let her take it but can they legally make us? can they take her out of class and not let her call me and give it to her without first getting my permission? bobbie

 

[hgrego1015]

A voice stress analysis test or VSA is like a polygraph test in that it is strictly used as an investigative tool. As far as using the results in court. The results can be used in court providing that both the defense and the state agree to its use. This is rare. Should your daughter take it? That is up to you. You have the right not to let her take it. The officer is assuming that she will.

Mike: Polygraphers and VSA technicians are for the most part professional in their job ethics. Most all use the tool accurately. I agree that there are some that would abuse it. Still, you have to take the tests for what they are worth and that is as a very good investigative tool.
I had an old Sergeant, and this was his opinion of the tests;
He said that you could hook up a suspect to a copy machine, and get the same results providing that you can make the suspect beleive that the copy machine is a lie detector. Its all about the interview.

 

[Mike101]

I think if a good investigation is conducted you do not need a polygraph test. I have never requested a suspect to take one. I have thrown the idea out to see their responses though.
I just wouldn't personally put my daughter in that postion. Also in my experience I would bet the officer is giving the impression that the 15 y.o. does not have a choice in the matter. If that is the case its flawed already.

 

[olliesbaby]

thanks to hgrego1015 and mike101 for your help. I did not think they could do this without asking me but i wanted to make sure before I said or did anything.I have a huge respect for the police and anyother persons in jobs where they risk their lives to save me and mine and I did not want it to seem like I was being disrespectful of them or their job but I want to do right by my child on the other hand.
thanks again,
bobbie

 

[hmmbrdzz]

Good info. Here's a point from personally knowing three officers (CO's) that were given polygraphs and, I believe, voice analysis(twice). A bunch of stuff. Once during the criminal investigation; then further on down the line (about a year later) by their attorneys' independent polygrapher (an expert polygrapher). The officers were actually innocent of the excessive use of force they were being accused of in the one incident they were being investigated for (an incident I had witnessed first hand and KNEW the facts and had to testify to), yet they were probably guilty of excessive use of force in some aspect of their job in perhaps another incident or incidents. Even though they were innocent of what they were being accused of in one incident, they were not doing well on the first test. The first test, which was administered by the state, was impeaching them; the second test, which was administered by their attorney was getting better. The arguments presented during the trial regarding the administration and accuracy of the tests was extensive. I wish I had those transcripts here to look at (all in my attic). It was very interesting how they argued it and what those officers went through because of a polygraph they agreed to take. The more I'm on these boards, the more I want to go get that stuff from the attic! Naaa.

Anyhow..... from what I've seen polygraphs do to people's lives, I wouldn't recommend anyone EVER offering to take one under any circumstance unless it was their defense attorney recommending it.


hmmbrdzz

 

[olliesbaby]

thanks alot hmmbrdzz.
bobbie

 

[djprice]

Hmmmmmmm...

Seems to me that Polygraph tests and CVSA exams are
in-admissable in criminal court. Civil trial only.... And therin only upon request of the Judicial authority. Correct me if i'm wrong. (State of CA vs. Simpson) among others. If she has nothing to hide let her take the test, the examiner is certified in the administration of those tests, i've been though many. Even if her guilt is confirmed it is still in-admissable. It'll confirm 1 of two things, either the school is out to get your daughter and she's innocent or the school's out to get your daughter and she's guilty. So what, mabey a lesson learned about the company she keeps.

 

[hmmbrdzz]

As far as I know, they can be used in criminal investigations. In the case of these officers, the state ordered them as part of the internal investigation; the SBI was investigating the incident at the same time; the SBI then made recommendations; the state referred it to the DA; the DA deferred charges; the officers lost their jobs anyhow; they filed civil lawsuits; they had civil attorneys with an attorney specializing in criminal defense (as more accusations were expected regarding excessive use of force); and the polygraphs and voice analysis were ripped to pieces during administrative hearings and civil proceedings (for almost four years). Is that what you were asking, hmmmmmm?


hmmbrdzz

 

[djprice]

I'm not asking anything.....

Just giving my opinion...sure they can be used in the investigation, i don't contest that. Just the application of the test results in a trial by jury and / or criminal proceding are not applicable, even by your own admission.

"and the polygraphs and voice analysis were ripped to pieces during administrative hearings and civil proceedings"

 

[hmmbrdzz]

Re: I'm not asking anything.....

It's me! It's late! I thought the "hmmmmmm" was addressed to me. I'm paranoid? I don't know. Good night! Have a good one.

hmmmmmmmmbrdzz

Just giving my opinion...sure they can be used in the investigation, i don't contest that. Just the application of the test results in a trial by jury and / or criminal proceding are not applicable, even by your own admission.

"and the polygraphs and voice analysis were ripped to pieces during administrative hearings and civil proceedings"

 

[djprice]

oh I see the misinterpretation...

my bad... next time I'll say wellllllllll, lets see here, or sounds like a real problem you've got on your hands there bud... Paranoia runs deep in the legal profession, I'll be a little more considerate next time Hmmmmmm. Later.

 

[hmmbrdzz]

Re: oh I see the misinterpretation...

Thank you much DJ . In this case, however, it's running in the medical profession! Later.

hmmmming

my bad... next time I'll say wellllllllll, lets see here, or sounds like a real problem you've got on your hands there bud... Paranoia runs deep in the legal profession, I'll be a little more considerate next time Hmmmmmm. Later.