Blackmailed into not reporting someone for unemployment fraud

[abackwardcircle]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Idaho

Hi,

Hopefully I've posted this in the correct section.

My grandfather has had a handyman working for him for around 6 months, roughly 20 hours a week. The entire time this handyman has been collecting full unemployment benefits which is of course, unemployment fraud.

This is a complex family matter with allot of dysfunctional social interactions, but suffice it to say, this handyman has been a seriously disruptive force in the family. It should be noted that this handyman is not a relative.

My grandfather has essentially sided with this handyman and is going against the family.

Both my grandfather and his handyman have threatened in writing, verbally, through e-mail, and via phone, that specific family members must not report the handyman for unemployment fraud or else. Its clearly communicated that they will do something, but they do not explicitly state what they will do. Family members are specifically named and threatened. An "official" ultimatum was sent to us in writing; I've records of both e-mails and the written letter.

I believe this amounts to both a conspiracy to commit fraud and some sort of blackmail or extortion.

What I need to know is;

1. What exactly are they guilty of?
2. How should I proceed legally?

I want to tread softly and avoid legal/lawyer fees until actual legal action needs to be taken. Thanks for any advice you can provide.

 

[cbg]

1.) They may not be guilty of anything. Every state allows a certain amount of work before benefits are reduced, and even after that amount partial benefits are allowed.

Do you KNOW of your own knowledge that the unemployment benefits are being collected fraudulently? Have you PERSONALLY SEEN the claims with false information on them?

Unless the answer to those two questions is unquestioningly yes, the answer to #2 is MYOB.

 

[Antigone*]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Idaho

Hi,

Hopefully I've posted this in the correct section.

My grandfather has had a handyman working for him for around 6 months, roughly 20 hours a week. The entire time this handyman has been collecting full unemployment benefits which is of course, unemployment fraud.

This is a complex family matter with allot of dysfunctional social interactions, but suffice it to say, this handyman has been a seriously disruptive force in the family. It should be noted that this handyman is not a relative.

My grandfather has essentially sided with this handyman and is going against the family.

Both my grandfather and his handyman have threatened in writing, verbally, through e-mail, and via phone, that specific family members must not report the handyman for unemployment fraud or else. Its clearly communicated that they will do something, but they do not explicitly state what they will do. Family members are specifically named and threatened. An "official" ultimatum was sent to us in writing; I've records of both e-mails and the written letter.

I believe this amounts to both a conspiracy to commit fraud and some sort of blackmail or extortion.

What I need to know is;

1. What exactly are they guilty of?
2. How should I proceed legally?

I want to tread softly and avoid legal/lawyer fees until actual legal action needs to be taken. Thanks for any advice you can provide.

I think cbg is correct. MYOB would be the way to go

 

[abackwardcircle]

Antigone*of*Greece and cbg,

Yes, the handyman is guilty of unemployment fraud. I've a full account of all the records in my possession. I've asked the employment department and the handyman is guilty of fraud. My grandfather will not be guilty of anything, unless he attempts to hide evidence, lie about hours, money paid etc, i.e commit perjury.

From what I gather then, it is not illegal itself to blackmail someone into not reporting unemployment fraud? The threats have to be specific for it to be illegal? I know in the cases of white collar crime threats do not have to be specific, but this far from a white collar crime. The fraud amounts to only several thousand.

Like I said in my original post I didn't want to get into family details, but since it seems to be relevant, I'll divulge more details. If you were in my situation you would not MYOB. I'm also directly involved in the situation because I live in the same households as some of the affected family members, I'm not simply an observer.

Trust me this is a handyman from hell.

He has:

• Tried to convince my 87 year old grandfather to throw out my 84 year old grandmother.
  Note: This would have been fully legal and fully within my grandfathers rights'. They're divorced, no lease agreement, etc etc.
  
• Cussed at and verbally abused my grandmother for months.
  He is a hired handyman, verbally abusing a 84 year old lady who lives in the house he is being hired to work on. How much that angers me is beyond words. My grandmother is currently restricted from making phone calls when the handyman is present in the house. That is a major red flag in my mind and I'm very concerned that the verbal abuse might get worse.
  
• As mentioned in my first post, he has continually issued vague threats to any family members who attempt to do something about the situation.
  
• He has recently begun harassing and threatening a friend of my mom.

Of course to continue working and get away with this he has conned and manipulated my grandfather.
In the process of working he has burned away 15-20k (I'm unsure exactly how much) of my grandfathers money, created continuous family turmoil, and wreaked emotional havoc on both my grandparents.

There have been a number of lesser actions, but what I've listed above are the major ones and I simply cant stand by while someone does this. If he was just a jerk I would just MYOB but what he is doing is beyond being a jerk, now that he is threatening people his actions are approaching criminal.

I'm simply looking for legal approaches to remove a cancerous and rotten person from my family. Now that you've more details do you have any further advice?

 

[justalayman]

I've a full account of all the records in my possession

how do you have any of the handyman's records? How do you know what he has filed concerning his UI? How do you know what the handyman is collecting from UI?

, that specific family members must not report the handyman for unemployment fraud or else.

or else what?

they will be mad?
Grandpa will cut you all out of his will?
the handyman will get into trouble?


or else what?

 

[abackwardcircle]

how do you have any of the handyman's records? How do you know what he has filed concerning his UI? How do you know what the handyman is collecting from UI?




or else what?

they will be mad?
Grandpa will cut you all out of his will?
the handyman will get into trouble?


or else what?

Sorry, miscommunication. I have no idea what he collects from UI I only have a copy of the records of what he has been paid by my grandfather and I know that he collects full unemployment benefits from UI, what the specific amount is I have no idea. But obviously he believes he is committing fraud or he would not be threatening people.

I'm hoping pressure from employment department will make him go away, I'm simply trying to get a idea of other legal options while I wait on the employment department to move on things.

The threats are not specific that is the point, he has not made a specific illegal threat he has said everything from "let the games begin", "I'll hurt you too" (in context he means hurt as in financial hurt), to "I know more about you than you think". He is not stupid and would never say a specific threat that is illegal.

 

[justalayman]

=abackwardcircle;2515829]Sorry, miscommunication. I have no idea what he collects from UI I only have a copy of the records of what he has been paid by my grandfather and I know that he collects full unemployment benefits from UI, what the specific amount is I have no idea.

If you do not know what he is collecting, how would you know he is collecting full benefits? How would you know if he is or isn't reporting his income as required and his UI is adjusted for that?

But obviously he believes he is committing fraud or he would not be threatening people.

Maybe he just feels it is none of your business and doesn't want the hassle of dealing with the issue. Most UI offices are notoriously pains in the butt to deal with.

I'm hoping pressure from employment department will make him go away, I'm simply trying to get a idea of other legal options while I wait on the employment department to move on things.

just call or write the UI office and state that you believe this guy may be committing UI fraud. Hell, send the a copy of the payment records from your grandfather, then let them deal with it. Do it anonymously so no one person will be to blame.

If you aren't going to do that much, then you might as well just ignore the entire situation and not get an ulcer over it.

The threats are not specific that is the point, he has not made a specific illegal threat he has said everything from "let the games begin", "I'll hurt you too" (in context he means hurt as in financial hurt), to "I know more about you than you think". He is not stupid and would never say a specific threat that is illegal.

if you admit his threats are not illegal, then how can you then suggest he is blackmailing you and others?

 

[abackwardcircle]

If you do not know what he is collecting, how would you know he is collecting full benefits? How would you know if he is or isn't reporting his income as required and his UI is adjusted for that?

Maybe he just feels it is none of your business and doesn't want the hassle of dealing with the issue. Most UI offices are notoriously pains in the butt to deal with

I know this because he has said he is collecting full benefits. If you read my other posts, you know that this handyman is not acting like a handyman at all. This is someone my grandfather has known for all of 8 months, yet he finds it appropriate to verbally abuse my grandmother, to threaten family members, and to attempt to get my grandfather to kick my grandmother out. He is manipulating and abusing a elderly man and completely taking advantage of his gullibility.

just call or write the UI office and state that you believe this guy may be committing UI fraud. Hell, send the a copy of the payment records from your grandfather, then let them deal with it. Do it anonymously so no one person will be to blame.

If you aren't going to do that much, then you might as well just ignore the entire situation and not get an ulcer over it.

This has already been done, as I mentioned in a previous post which you just replied to. This is unknown to him, he has been making threats and harassing people because he believes he will or has been reported to UI. He is attempting to manipulate people into helping protect him by not reporting him or by lying to the UI. He is paranoid and acting crazy.

I Quote my previous post below.

I'm simply trying to get a idea of other legal options while I wait on the employment department to move on things.

if you admit his threats are not illegal, then how can you then suggest he is blackmailing you and others?

His threats alone are not illegal, context however can make something that is not illegal, illegal. Implied threats are entirely dependent on contextual facts. If someone were to say "I'll get you" that statement alone would not be illegal. However, if he did it while pointing a loaded gun it would constitute a death threat. When implied threats are made context means everything.

When I use the term blackmail I don't mean in a strict legal definition, I mean the dictionary definition. I know in many cases those definitions can differ dramatically, but I'm not legally educated so you'll have to forgive me.

I'm asking a very simple question, I don't understand why you keep getting off into this string of questioning me.

Is it illegal to entice and or coerce an individual into conspiracy to commit UI fraud? Regardless, of whether the bribes and or threats are legal or illegal. I'm simply seeking some basic advice and answers so I know what legal direction to proceed in.

Is this something that is illegal alone?

Or do I have to wait for more specific circumstances such as a threat of illegal action or a bribe to commit perjury? In both those cases there would be a much more serious crime to report and the UI fraud would be mute anyway.

I know that with white collar crimes and certain types of fraud bribes can be a gray area and are not under all circumstances illegal, context is important.

Would it be worth my time to seek out a lawyer and show him/her the actual threats so someone can analyze them in full context? Or in most cases would this not be worth bothering with unless there is a explicit and clearly stated threat? A conspiracy to commit UI fraud does not strike me as something the legal system would be too concerned with.

I know without all the facts this seems like a unbelievable situation, believe me unbelievable is the perfect word to describe this handyman. Over several thousand in unemployment checks he has been willing to create a massive amount of turmoil in my family, even going so far as to harass friends of the family. I'm still amazed that a handyman like this exists, he is truly a handyman from hell. I'm just trying to pursue legal options to motivate a destructive individual to leave my family alone.

 

[justalayman]

I think you need to figure out what you want out of this situation. If you want the guy to get caught by the UI department, then, if you have supplied them with the incriminating evidence, all you can do is wait.

and no, you never said you had forwarded the info you have to the UI office. All you said is you talked to them about the situation. You never stated you actually reported possible fraud.


If you are having a problem with how he treats your grandma, well, as long as grandpa allows the guy in his home, there is really nothing you can do until he crosses the line into illegal.

If grandma is not happy with what grandpa is doing, then she needs to deal with that.

If you believe grandpa is not mentally competent, then you have a lot of options but if grandpa is competent, your options are very limited.

Grandpa can do what he wants with his money and if it is his house, he can evict grandma.

You simply have no actions, that I can see, that would result in what you are attempting to do.

 

[abackwardcircle]

I think you need to figure out what you want out of this situation. If you want the guy to get caught by the UI department, then, if you have supplied them with the incriminating evidence, all you can do is wait.

and no, you never said you had forwarded the info you have to the UI office. All you said is you talked to them about the situation. You never stated you actually reported possible fraud.


If you are having a problem with how he treats your grandma, well, as long as grandpa allows the guy in his home, there is really nothing you can do until he crosses the line into illegal.

If grandma is not happy with what grandpa is doing, then she needs to deal with that.

If you believe grandpa is not mentally competent, then you have a lot of options but if grandpa is competent, your options are very limited.

Grandpa can do what he wants with his money and if it is his house, he can evict grandma.

You simply have no actions, that I can see, that would result in what you are attempting to do.

This is what I had thought. Thanks.