Is this child abuse?

[Kel79]

I live in New York State. I'm looking for advice about my sister's legal situation.

My sister graduated college with a degree in Psychology in December 2001. In the summer of 2002, she started her first full-time job related to her degree, as a counselor in a home for runaways. Her boss reported her to social services due to 2 separate actions on the part of my sister: first, she allowed a minor in her care ("Gary," aged 17) to drive the company car. Second, Gary had a crush on my sister and frequently flirted with her, hugged her, etc. On 3 separate occasions, Gary kissed my sister and she allowed him to, not pushing him away. She told him once that his behavior was unacceptable, but she still allowed those 3 kisses.

My sister's boss fired her after he found out about her allowing Gary to drive, and Gary also told the boss that he and my sister had a sexual relationship. Her boss asked my sister to submit in writing what had occurred between her and Gary. She admitted that they had kissed but denied any sexual relationship.

I have no doubt that my sister is telling the truth and that she didn't have a sexual relationship with Gary. But I'm wondering how much trouble she can get into for kissing him? She received a letter today from the NY State Office of Children and Family Services informing her that her case has been labelled "indicated," meaning "that some credible evidence has been found to support the determination that the child named in the report has been abused or maltreated."

Last month, my sister requested a copy of all the info contained in her report, but she has yet to receive the information. The letter says she can submit a written request that the report be amended from "indicated" to "unfounded." Should she do this?

My sister will be getting a lawyer soon, but I'm very worried about her and would like to receive some legal opinions here about how much trouble my sister is in legally, what her punishment will most likely be, and whether she should request that her report be amended to "unfounded."

[I'm aware that what my sister did was *incredibly* stupid. In her defense, she received no training for her position, and is naturally timid, soft-spoken, and not assertive *at all* (her biggest fault). She is also petite (5'2", 100lbs.) and I know she felt intimidated by the teenagers staying there. She only took this job b/c of financial pressures and continued looking for another job while working there. She had this job from Aug. until Nov. of 2002]

 

[Kel79]

I forgot to include that Gary had told my sister that he had a learner's permit, but he actually doesn't.

 

[stephenk]

in a legal nutshell, your sister is screwed.

any type of physical relationship between a counselor and patient is forbidden. Plus, the patient is a minor!

she is right to get an attorney and hopefully the attorney can do something so she doesnt lose license to practice.

 

[hmmbrdzz]

I live in New York State. I'm looking for advice about my sister's legal situation.

My sister graduated college with a degree in Psychology in December 2001. In the summer of 2002, she started her first full-time job related to her degree, as a counselor in a home for runaways. Her boss reported her to social services due to 2 separate actions on the part of my sister: first, she allowed a minor in her care ("Gary," aged 17) to drive the company car. Second, Gary had a crush on my sister and frequently flirted with her, hugged her, etc. On 3 separate occasions, Gary kissed my sister and she allowed him to, not pushing him away. She told him once that his behavior was unacceptable, but she still allowed those 3 kisses.

My sister's boss fired her after he found out about her allowing Gary to drive, and Gary also told the boss that he and my sister had a sexual relationship. Her boss asked my sister to submit in writing what had occurred between her and Gary. She admitted that they had kissed but denied any sexual relationship.

I have no doubt that my sister is telling the truth and that she didn't have a sexual relationship with Gary. But I'm wondering how much trouble she can get into for kissing him? She received a letter today from the NY State Office of Children and Family Services informing her that her case has been labelled "indicated," meaning "that some credible evidence has been found to support the determination that the child named in the report has been abused or maltreated."

Last month, my sister requested a copy of all the info contained in her report, but she has yet to receive the information. The letter says she can submit a written request that the report be amended from "indicated" to "unfounded." Should she do this?

My sister will be getting a lawyer soon, but I'm very worried about her and would like to receive some legal opinions here about how much trouble my sister is in legally, what her punishment will most likely be, and whether she should request that her report be amended to "unfounded."

[I'm aware that what my sister did was *incredibly* stupid. In her defense, she received no training for her position, and is naturally timid, soft-spoken, and not assertive *at all* (her biggest fault). She is also petite (5'2", 100lbs.) and I know she felt intimidated by the teenagers staying there. She only took this job b/c of financial pressures and continued looking for another job while working there. She had this job from Aug. until Nov. of 2002]

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My response: It was incredibly MORE than stupid. Her career should be ruined for taking advantage of minor runaways. What would her physique have to do with it, anyhow? She ought never be able to do anything with respect to her profession again.
Never. They'll rip her a new one. No sympathy. She'll need the best attorney money can buy.

hmmbrdzz

 

[Kel79]

I'm looking for advice from legal experts concerning this case, not an emotional outburst.

 

[hmmbrdzz]

Well then you have the option of getting off this free advice site and going to pay for some expert legal advice -- yeah.... find an expert attorney who will tell you your sister has done just a fine job with those kids and didn't have sex with Gary and deserves sympathy and another job with disturbed children. You sure as heck don't need to be her defense attorney with all the lame excuses you're coming up for her: petite, soft spoken, had to take the job for financial reasons, was intimidated by the teenages, had no training. Those won't work.


hmmbrdzz

 

[Kel79]

Stephen: My sister only has her B.A. Although her job title was "residential counselor, " her job duties didn't even include counseling. She did some paperwork, but her duties were primarily to be a baby sitter--make sure the runaways behaved, did their chores, etc., a job she wasn't good at (obviously). During her interview she was told her job duties and that she'd be working alone (the only residential counselor in a home with 5-6 runaways). My sister informed her boss that she's never been comfortable in a position of authority, explaining that when her manager at her former job would give her supervisory duties over other employees she was not comfortable telling people what to do and was uncomfortable acting in a disciplinary way and telling others "no." Her boss hired her anyway, no doubt b/c he was desperate since the job has such a high turnover rate. Besides one r.c. who had been with the company for about a year, most other counselors only lasted a few months. Anyway, I don't think the rules governing behavior between a counselor and patient would apply in this manner, since my sister is not a counselor (she has neither her M.A. in counseling nor a PhD), and her job duties didn't even include counseling. I should've been more precise with my language, but I do appreciate your response.
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Hmm: Apparently you had a significant problem with me describing my sister as petite, seeing as how you mentioned her being so in both your posts. I thought it was obvious why I mentioned it, but apparently the relevance wasn't clear. Most of the kids staying in the house were 16-17 year old males, big builds, and tough kids. My sister is a few years older than them, and a small person. Her physical appearance and inability to assert herself properly led to the kids not respecting her. The one time I accompanied her to work, I noticed the kids disrespecting her (i.e., not listening to anything she told them to do.) I know, b/c she told me so, that my sister felt very uncomfortable and intimidated by these kids. The kids not only failed to follow my sister's orders, they were verbally abusive to her, including Gary, who went on several verbally abusive tirades against my sister, very much upsetting her. Some people can be my sister's size and still command respect with these types of kids; my sister is not one of them. (And this is something she definitely needs to change about herself; she is too nice, too sensitive, too much of a doormat.)

I am most certainly not looking for sympathy for my sister, nor am I looking for ad hominem attacks and condemnation. You're interpreting this on an emotional plane, when I am looking for laws that relate to this case, legal advice you can't/won't give, that is, whether it was child abuse for my sister to allow Gary to take the keys to the company car and drive and whether it was child abuse for my sister to allow Gary to kiss her three times (kisses my sister described as short pecks). I suppose you must realize that your posts are useless to someone looking for legal advice, but you do them anyway, meaning you get some sorta kick out of them, so carry on with whatever entertains you, but I won't be responding as long as your posts remain representations of your personal emotions, opinions, and values, information that is meaningless to me.

 

[hmmbrdzz]

Stephen: My sister only has her B.A. Although her job title was "residential counselor, " her job duties didn't even include counseling. She did some paperwork, but her duties were primarily to be a baby sitter--make sure the runaways behaved, did their chores, etc., a job she wasn't good at (obviously). During her interview she was told her job duties and that she'd be working alone (the only residential counselor in a home with 5-6 runaways). My sister informed her boss that she's never been comfortable in a position of authority, explaining that when her manager at her former job would give her supervisory duties over other employees she was not comfortable telling people what to do and was uncomfortable acting in a disciplinary way and telling others "no." Her boss hired her anyway, no doubt b/c he was desperate since the job has such a high turnover rate. Besides one r.c. who had been with the company for about a year, most other counselors only lasted a few months. Anyway, I don't think the rules governing behavior between a counselor and patient would apply in this manner, since my sister is not a counselor (she has neither her M.A. in counseling nor a PhD), and her job duties didn't even include counseling. I should've been more precise with my language, but I do appreciate your response.
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Hmm: Apparently you had a significant problem with me describing my sister as petite, seeing as how you mentioned her being so in both your posts. I thought it was obvious why I mentioned it, but apparently the relevance wasn't clear. Most of the kids staying in the house were 16-17 year old males, big builds, and tough kids. My sister is a few years older than them, and a small person. Her physical appearance and inability to assert herself properly led to the kids not respecting her. The one time I accompanied her to work, I noticed the kids disrespecting her (i.e., not listening to anything she told them to do.) I know, b/c she told me so, that my sister felt very uncomfortable and intimidated by these kids. The kids not only failed to follow my sister's orders, they were verbally abusive to her, including Gary, who went on several verbally abusive tirades against my sister, very much upsetting her. Some people can be my sister's size and still command respect with these types of kids; my sister is not one of them. (And this is something she definitely needs to change about herself; she is too nice, too sensitive, too much of a doormat.)

I am most certainly not looking for sympathy for my sister, nor am I looking for ad hominem attacks and condemnation. You're interpreting this on an emotional plane, when I am looking for laws that relate to this case, legal advice you can't/won't give, that is, whether it was child abuse for my sister to allow Gary to take the keys to the company car and drive and whether it was child abuse for my sister to allow Gary to kiss her three times (kisses my sister described as short pecks). I suppose you must realize that your posts are useless to someone looking for legal advice, but you do them anyway, meaning you get some sorta kick out of them, so carry on with whatever entertains you, but I won't be responding as long as your posts remain representations of your personal emotions, opinions, and values, information that is meaningless to me.

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My response: Sister, I'm an RN, 23 + years. I've worked with the prison system and with troubled youth and have specialized in psych nursing on a max unit and am "petite". Yes, your sister's actions make me "emotional" because I think it's about the most abusive thing a professional can do -- take advantage of their patient, so to speak. I cannot fathom your being on this board in your sister's behalf seeking only those opinions who want to assist her because you want to find an excuse in her stature. It is no excuse. What your sister did, depending on the entire circumstances of the incident and your sister's education, can be considered abuse and maltreatment and child endangerment along with some other things, too. These children were under her authority. She abused that authority and allowed a 17 year old boy to drive a company car, kiss her three times, and who knows what else. I have absolutely no sympathy for your sister. There was no excuse for it. If she didn't like the intimidation and couldn't handle the job, she should have stopped working there. That's my evaluation of it, and I have no sympathy for her or for you, and I hope the judge doesn't, either. You can bet your last dollar that I'm not the only one who feels this way, either. You can consider my response a human side that you and your sister will have to deal with as it regards any upcoming "legal" proceedings.


hmmbrdzz

 

[tonia1]

Children's Code FYI

Just a preface, I am not an attorney nor do I live in your state. However, I am a child protection worker in Colorado and I can tell you what would occur here. First, you need to find out what the New York Children's Code says about "Sexual Assault by a person in a position of trust". That is where they will in all reality be heading in this case. While your sister may have been small and not assertive, she was the person in charge, and she was in charge of minors, no matter whether they were 2 or 17 11 months and 29 days. Any person under the age of 18 is a minor by statute. Secondly, sexual assault does not have to be "sex" that is the normal definition. Sexual assault can and does include oral/oral, oral/genital, genital/genital and photo taking in most states. In an instance where your sister was not in charge, she probably would not be charged with a crime because then it would have fallen under statutory rape, and the age of consent would have popped up. However, it's a whole different ball game when the person is charged with the parental responsibilities of that child. In colorado, I can tell you that she would be charged with sexual assault on a child by a person in a position of trust because of the 3 kisses. While they may have been unwanted and not instigated, she did not report them immediately and she allowed them to occur by not trying to stop the situation, no matter what the consequence. Being passive and intimidated in all likelyhood won't stop the Deparment of Human Services from putting her on their Central Registry as a sexual perpetrator. That's another issue she needs to look at, as that registry is used to do background checks for many, many types of jobs, but especially those relating to children, whether it be daycare, school, etc. Sexual assault holds a higher penalty in most states than does child abuse, as child abuse is a misdemeanor in most states (including colorado) and sexual assault is a felony charge. Yes, your sister needs a good attorney and I hope this has given you some further information about how the laws relate to minors. Good Luck.

 

[Kel79]

Thank you, Tonia. Your post was very helpful.