excessive force???

[shelleylorraine]

What is the name of your state? California
I was shopping at savemart supermarket with my husband and 2 and 5yr olds. I shop here every week and spend at least 200.00 a week. Half way through the baby started to cry so I got a pacifier and opened it went to the bathroom to rinse it and returned to my child and gave it to him. I put the package in the cart with all my stuff and proceeded to shop. approx half hour later after checkout we were exiting store i had 2 plastic bags of groceries and my sons hand when 2 gangster looking guys came running out of the store 1 guy grabbed my husband the other guy grabbed my arm twisted it behind my back and handcuffed me , he scared the hell out of me!! he then said somthing about security come with me now , he showed me no id , he hurt my arm because I was still hanging on to the bags behind my back while handcuffed, they tried to handcuff my husband but stopped when he told them he was a peace officer. they then let him go and took me upstairs. they asked me where the binki(pacifier was) and thought I had hid it in my clothesI explained i went in the bathroom to wash it off not hide it, they then took the hand cuffs off and called the manager, the cardboard the binki was on did get put on the belt but didnt get scanned and went in the belt tray. the manager said dont worry about it and let me go.
I feel they used excessive force and should not be able to go that far. they scared my kids to death and totally stressed me out also.
can they do this and is there anything i can do about it legally. I know I should not have opened it in the store, but i honestly was not trying to shoplift, just make my baby happy.

 

[I AM ALWAYS LIABLE]

My response:

As your husband will tell you, the undercover store detectives had every right to do what they did to you, and in the manner they did it. It's not their fault that you had your children with you, and that they "scared" your children - - which is foreseeable when they have a good-faith belief they have a shoplifter in their midst.

The fact is, and to them, you were a shoplifter. The pacifier wasn't on your receipt - - ergo, you didn't pay for it. They have no duty to "know" what was in your mind; i.e., you said, "but i honestly was not trying to shoplift."

The fact remains, you didn't pay for the item, and you walked out of the store. It didn't matter that you opened an item in the store - - what matters is whether or not you paid for the item.

It was only through the good graces of the store manager that you weren't arrested for theft.

IAAL

 

[shelleylorraine]

your input didnt help me at all, excessive force was not necessary,
no one was trying to run away, argue or threaten anyone in anyway. This was not a case of shoplifting but a case of somthing not getting scanned by accident because the container was found in the belt! The untrained security guards used handcuffs/ and excessive force on someone completely calm and unaware of what was happening. I bet I will find out that they can not do that and that they better be certified in that job!!!
\I bet there is some kind of law against excessive force but no one here knows about it .

 

[JETX]

Okay, Shelley. Since you seem reluctant to understand IAAL's correct post, lets play your game

Since you aren't EXACTLY clear what you feel was excessive in your long story, lets look at it:
1) "1 guy grabbed my husband the other guy grabbed my arm twisted it behind my back and handcuffed me"
** The use of restraints (handcuffs) is very common and often required. No harm here. In order to cuff a suspect, you MUST 'twist' his/her arms behind their backs. Ask your husband how many times he has cuffed a suspect and had to 'twist' his/her arm behind the back to do it. Though I agree that cuffing you might have been 'overkill', it is acceptable and not excessive.

2) "he hurt my arm because I was still hanging on to the bags behind my back while handcuffed"
** From your post, your arm was hurt due to YOUR 'hanging on to the bags'. If your arm hurt so much, you would have dropped the bags. Again, no excessive here.

Those seem to be the only real physical issues that you feel were excessive. I see this as maybe over-reaction, but not use of excessive force. Keep in mind that these 'rent-a-cops' are not trained or equipped like 'real' law enforcement officers. Also, they don't have the same 'public' contraints that the police must exercise. Their 'beat' is private property and they have the responsiblity to protect their employers property.

 

[shelleylorraine]

Okay, Shelley. Since you seem reluctant to understand IAAL's correct post, lets play your game

Since you aren't EXACTLY clear what you feel was excessive in your long story, lets look at it:
1) "1 guy grabbed my husband the other guy grabbed my arm twisted it behind my back and handcuffed me"
** The use of restraints (handcuffs) is very common and often required. No harm here. In order to cuff a suspect, you MUST 'twist' his/her arms behind their backs. Ask your husband how many times he has cuffed a suspect and had to 'twist' his/her arm behind the back to do it. Though I agree that cuffing you might have been 'overkill', it is acceptable and not excessive.

2) "he hurt my arm because I was still hanging on to the bags behind my back while handcuffed"
** From your post, your arm was hurt due to YOUR 'hanging on to the bags'. If your arm hurt so much, you would have dropped the bags. Again, no excessive here.

Those seem to be the only real physical issues that you feel were excessive. I see this as maybe over-reaction, but not use of excessive force. Keep in mind that these 'rent-a-cops' are not trained or equipped like 'real' law enforcement officers. Also, they don't have the same 'public' contraints that the police must exercise. Their 'beat' is private property and they have the responsiblity to protect their employers property.

 

[shelleylorraine]

I am glad this advise forum was free because it is not worth ''''

you people dont seem to realize we did not steal anything.
and you keep referring to my husband and telling me to ask him ??ss what for, I was asking them here, who cares what he does for a living, I was trying to get some legal questions answered but got nothing except alot of sarcasim.
I have done some legal research myself, and found that they can not use excessive force as a matter of fact they can not hand cuff me in the manner they did.
thanks for nothing.

Okay, Shelley. Since you seem reluctant to understand IAAL's correct post, lets play your game

Since you aren't EXACTLY clear what you feel was excessive in your long story, lets look at it:
1) "1 guy grabbed my husband the other guy grabbed my arm twisted it behind my back and handcuffed me"
** The use of restraints (handcuffs) is very common and often required. No harm here. In order to cuff a suspect, you MUST 'twist' his/her arms behind their backs. Ask your husband how many times he has cuffed a suspect and had to 'twist' his/her arm behind the back to do it. Though I agree that cuffing you might have been 'overkill', it is acceptable and not excessive.

2) "he hurt my arm because I was still hanging on to the bags behind my back while handcuffed"
** From your post, your arm was hurt due to YOUR 'hanging on to the bags'. If your arm hurt so much, you would have dropped the bags. Again, no excessive here.

Those seem to be the only real physical issues that you feel were excessive. I see this as maybe over-reaction, but not use of excessive force. Keep in mind that these 'rent-a-cops' are not trained or equipped like 'real' law enforcement officers. Also, they don't have the same 'public' contraints that the police must exercise. Their 'beat' is private property and they have the responsiblity to protect their employers property.

 

[JETX]

Shelley, do you live in the 'castle' at Disneyland??

You said, "you people dont seem to realize we did not steal anything."
Lets see, in your earlier post, you said, "Half way through the baby started to cry so I got a pacifier and opened it went to the bathroom to rinse it and returned to my child and gave it to him" and " the cardboard the binki was on did get put on the belt but didnt get scanned and went in the belt tray".
** So, from your post, you opened a package in the store and then left the store without paying for it. What would you call that??? Borrowing??

"I was trying to get some legal questions answered but got nothing except alot of sarcasim."
**I have re-read your original post and guess what??? I finally found your 'legal question', as follows: "can they do this and is there anything i can do about it legally."
Answer: Yes. No.
Feel better??

"I have done some legal research myself, and found that they can not use excessive force as a matter of fact they can not hand cuff me in the manner they did."
** Very likely another example of an 'unskilled' person trying to read the statutes and then 'bending' them to get the answer that they wanted. So, please enlighten us.... what did you find and where??

The use of handcuffs themselves to restrain a suspect is NOT excessive nor does it create exposure to civil liability for negligence.
Negligence would include choking, punching, kicking, improper handcuffing, hog-ties, and the intentional application of pain compliance techniques. Extreme foul language, ethnic slurs, and verbal threats of harm could all be considered excessive when a shoplifter is in custody. When handcuffs are applied, the loss prevention agent is responsible for the shoplifter's safety from trips and falls, adequate blood circulation to the hands, and the their ability to breath." Read CA Penal Code, Section 490.5.

"thanks for nothing."
No, thank you!! You have very possibly helped other shoplifters to realize the repercussions of their actions.... they CAN be restrained and then have their ass hauled back into the store to be held for the police... even while dragging their little kiddo's along!! If your 'story' helps to prevent one wayward sole from following in your footsteps, you have done well!! Thank you!!