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  1. #31
    ExTrucker is offline Junior Member
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    Actually Holden, you are incorrect in your assumption that an ex-felon cannot own a black powder weapon or the propellant for it.

    Title 18 USC, Section 921 (a)(3) establishes the definition of a "firearm" as follows:


    "(3) The term "firearm" means
    (A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive;
    (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon;
    (C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or
    (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm
    ."

    Title 18 USC, Section 921 (a)(16) further defines an "antique firearm" as follows:
    "(16) The term "antique firearm" means -
    (A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or
    (B) any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica -
    (i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
    (ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; or
    (C) any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term "antique firearm" shall
    not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof
    ."

    Now, let me address Texas law. The legal definition of a "firearm" in Texas statutes is provided by Title 10, Section 46.01 (3) of the Texas Penal Code, as shown below:
    "(3) "Firearm" means any device designed, made, or adapted to expel a projectile through a barrel by using the energy generated by an explosion or burning substance or any device readily convertible to that use. Firearm does not include a firearm that may have, as an integral part, a folding knife blade or other characteristics of weapons made illegal by this chapter and that is:
    (A) an antique or curio firearm manufactured before 1899; or
    (B) a replica of an antique or curio firearm manufactured before 1899, but only if the replica does not use rim fire or center fire ammunition
    ."

    Granted, this definition is not as broad and straight-forward as the Federal definition, but it clearly appears to encompass black powder weapons.

    Additionally, if you would care to check the container packaging of all commercial black powder (and black powder substitutes such as Triple 7 and Pyrodex), you will find a statement that these propellants are not legally classified as explosives. Therefore, they are legal for anyone to possess and use for any legal purpose.

    In short, an ex-felon has an absolute right to own, use and possess any black powder muzzleloading weapon under Federal law; this may be open for interpretation in the State of Texas, but I believe that it is legal under Texas statute also.
  2. #32
    grunion is offline Junior Member
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    Smile

    After talking to the ATF and being transferred to the local ATF here in Austin TX, they confirmed that black powder is not a gun and someone with a previous felony can in fact buy, transport, and hunt with a black powder rifle. The information has not changed as I inquired about the same thing years back for a hunting trip. Someone with a felony can also purchase a bow and arrow and hunt with that as well. Cross bows are out of the question though.

    I asked if there is something one could print out to show that those with a felony could lawfully carry this rifle and they (the ATF) pointed me here: [url]http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/922.html[/url]

    In reading this thread and others, I see a bitter judgemental haze that coincides with the responses to those that inquire about this particular question. From a professional point of view and to keep the thread drifting to a minimal, I would like to suggest that only the question asked be answered without any other perspective which dilutes the valuable information being saught.

    In Texas, Felons CAN own BLACK POWDER not only in your home but it is LEGAL to hunt with this method as well.

    Thank you and good night!

    I'm off to Cabelas
  3. #33
    FlyingRon is offline Senior Member
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    Maybe they know, but the ATF is NOT the organization that has the authority to make decision s on the enforcement of Texas laws. The USCode is one thing, but there are Texas statutes and court precedence to deal with.
  4. #34
    Ozark_Sophist is offline Senior Member
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    Possession of firearms by felons: A convicted felon, regardless of where the conviction occurred, may not possess or use a firearm (as defined by Penal Code, 46.01) to hunt in this state. Under Penal Code, 46.01, a muzzleloading firearm is lawful if it is an antique or curio firearm manufactured before 1899 or a replica of an antique or curio firearm manufactured before 1899 that does not use rimfire or centerfire ammunition.
    [url]http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/annual/hunt/means/[/url]

    Legal. Legal.

    It took about 30 seconds to find this link. Some people here just got owned.
  5. #35
    CdwJava is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozark_Sophist View Post
    [url]http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/annual/hunt/means/[/url]

    Legal. Legal.

    It took about 30 seconds to find this link. Some people here just got owned.
    I came up with the legal determination on 12/6/07 ... I was on board early on.

    - Carl
    A Nor Cal Cop Sergeant

    "Make mine a double mocha ...
    And a croissant!"

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM
  6. #36
    xylene is offline Senior Member
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    Todays NRA - Fightin for Felons

    Quote Originally Posted by grunion View Post
    Cross bows are out of the question though.
    Is that because felons can't own crossbows, or because a scant few states allow crossbow hunting (and only under narrow circumstances

    I asked if there is something one could print out to show that those with a felony could lawfully carry this rifle and they (the ATF) pointed me here: [url]http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/922.html[/url]

    In reading this thread and others, I see a bitter judgemental haze that coincides with the responses to those that inquire about this particular question.
    No, the judgment was rendered by a court. A felon is a felon, now and forever.

    Eloquence on a forum proves nothing.

    I would like to suggest that only the question asked be answered without any other perspective which dilutes the valuable information being saught.
    You mean no anti-gun information. Or no information that says at the end of the day you are relying on goodwill and a telephone call.

    If you are arrested, you will spend thousands to be exonerated.

    PS, I am a gun hating liberal new yorker, and I hate felons. And I REALLY hate hunting.
    Last edited by xylene; 01-17-2008 at 10:07 AM. Reason: NRA is scum
  7. #37
    CdwJava is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by xylene View Post
    If you are arrested, you will spend thousands to be exonerated.
    It appears that pursuant to TX law a charge cannot be made for a felon in possession of a black powder weapon. If the DA does his or her job, they wouldn't file.

    PS, I am a gun hating liberal new yorker, and I hate felons. And I REALLY hate hunting.
    Well, I'm a pro-gun control (with limitations) conservative who does NOT actively support the NRA and I have no problem with hunting (though I do not do it myself).

    Your point being ???

    - Carl
    A Nor Cal Cop Sergeant

    "Make mine a double mocha ...
    And a croissant!"

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM
  8. #38
    grunion is offline Junior Member
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    Talking

    Is that because felons can't own crossbows, or because a scant few states allow crossbow hunting
    Xylene,
    I claim ignorance on that answer as I have never dove into the crossbow scene. I prefer compound bows for my own personal reasons, but I do believe they are banned in Texas for "everyone".



    PS, I am a gun hating liberal new yorker, and I hate felons. And I REALLY hate hunting.
    cdwJava,
    Hey, good for you. You hate there for you are. I am happy for you and your ability to channel your aggression into a bitter yet satisfying outlet of haze just to be enjoyed by you. Carry on with that freedom of expression that our country faught so hard to protect. I'm sure it will lead you into a happy place.

    Now back to the program......

    The law states it clear as day. The federal and local ATF are on the same level. I actually referred to a black powdered rifle as a fire arm and they (the ATF gun hotline) corrected my terminology and stated that it (a blackpowder rifle) was in fact not a fire arm. The local police are aware of the differences and if someone was to get arrested under ignorance of the law, I feel confident that our judges will in fact interpret the laws correctly. If there is any doubt, that is what attorneys are for.

    Follow the laws and live your life but don't let fear interpret the laws for you.
    Last edited by grunion; 01-17-2008 at 03:19 PM. Reason: clarification in parenthesis

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