flipping the bird = disorderly conduct??

[sumtra99]

What is the name of your state? Pennsylvania

To make the story simple and short, I flipped the bird to a policeman and he pulled me over. I ended up getting a disorderly conduct ticket for the bird. I've had issues with this officer and his buddy in the past so I proceeded home to call the sheriff. He apparently beat me to it and the sheriff left a nasty message telling me to quit harrassing his officers! I called the sheriff and gave him my side of the story. I told him what was I to do? If you hear that policemen spread bad rumors about you, you don't hunt them down and confront them. You can only flip the bird and be satisfied with that. I know its crude but considering my options it was the best. The sheriff wants me to apologize to the officer and he may drop the ticket.

Did he violate my first amendment by ticketing me for the bird?? Do I have some leverage to get him to drop it without apologizing to him??

 

[ENASNI]

They did not call animal control? Was the bird hurt in anyway when you flipped it?

 

[Shay-Pari'e]

LMAO! This is the dumbest thing I have read in a long time.

 

[Will3_74]

Get you a lawyer. Sounds like you have a strong case against the officer... In 2000, there was a similar case in Arkansas. A federal court ruled that a citizen has the right to display his or her middle finger to an officer. The Arkansan was awarded $2000 for having his rights violated. Check into it, don't give in.

 

[averad]

http://www.chiprowe.com/articles/legal-history-finger.html

No court cases are listed so this information may be false.

 

[Will3_74]

http://www.ag.state.ar.us/outreach/108/108news1000.htm

Found this on the Arkansas Attorney General's website. Good Luck!!

 

[BelizeBreeze]

What is the name of your state? Pennsylvania

To make the story simple and short, I flipped the bird to a policeman and he pulled me over. I ended up getting a disorderly conduct ticket for the bird. I've had issues with this officer and his buddy in the past so I proceeded home to call the sheriff. He apparently beat me to it and the sheriff left a nasty message telling me to quit harrassing his officers! I called the sheriff and gave him my side of the story. I told him what was I to do? If you hear that policemen spread bad rumors about you, you don't hunt them down and confront them. You can only flip the bird and be satisfied with that. I know its crude but considering my options it was the best. The sheriff wants me to apologize to the officer and he may drop the ticket.

Did he violate my first amendment by ticketing me for the bird?? Do I have some leverage to get him to drop it without apologizing to him??

No he did not. Your rights to act stupid are still intact. You can flip the bird at any rally or just for the hell of it.

HOWEVER, you directed it TO someone and anyone has the right to file charges against you.

You're lucky you don't live in Germany and/or Austria where your stupidity would result in an assault charge.

 

[CdwJava]

Did he violate my first amendment by ticketing me for the bird?? Do I have some leverage to get him to drop it without apologizing to him??

First, the US District Court decision cited by Will3_74 may not be applicable in PA.

Second, I would have to agree that BY ITSELF flipping "the bird" to an officer is not likely to result in a sustainable criminal complaint against the defendent. However, if the gesture is accompanied by other activity that MIGHT satisfy the elements of the crime in PA, then it just might ... fly.

Here are the codes I have found:

§ 21.74. Disorderly conduct.
The following are prohibited:
(1) Fighting or other behavior that is threatening, violent or tumultuous.
(2) The possession or consumption of alcoholic beverages by persons under 21 years of age.
(3) Creating an unreasonable noise that may disturb other visitors to State Forest land.

§ 23.24. Disorderly, indecent or obscene or lewd conduct.
Disorderly conduct, indecent exposure, and obscene or lewd acts or dress is prohibited.

If you don't want to apologize, you might consider an attorney. However, it is very likely the local DA will drop this like a hot potato if he gets the report and it describes your sole activity as being 'the bird'.

Personally, I see someone flipping me off as someone trying to flag me down ... I suppose they might need some assistance so I will go and cotnact them. On more than one occasion this has led me to wanted persons ... go figure! (It's a bad idea to flip off a cop if you have a warrant or a suspended license!)

- Carl

 

[averad]

(It's a bad idea to flip off a cop if you have a warrant or a suspended license!)

HAHAHAHAHA

 

[bucs1055]

Enasni

They did not call animal control? Was the bird hurt in anyway when you flipped it?

ROFLMAO, Thanks so much for that laugh, it was just what I needed after the week I had

Edit: I can't spell

 

[ylen13]

i could be wrong on year i think it happened in 95 but didn't similar case go all the way to us supreme court and it said middle finger was protected under first ammendment right of free speech.

 

[tranquility]

Carl wrote:
"Personally, I see someone flipping me off as someone trying to flag me down ... I suppose they might need some assistance so I will go and cotnact them. On more than one occasion this has led me to wanted persons ... go figure! (It's a bad idea to flip off a cop if you have a warrant or a suspended license!)"

When someone flips you the bird you *ACTUALLY* believe they might need assistance?

If not, I hope your contacts did not involve a seizure (like a traffic stop) in any way because the intentional violation of another's civil rights under color of authority is a crime. A hard felony to prove, I admit, and one which is rarely prosecuted for many legitimate reasons. Then we'd get to the 1983 violation. Of course, maybe a reasonable officer would believe the same thing. A hard sell, but maybe.

 

[CdwJava]

When someone flips you the bird you *ACTUALLY* believe they might need assistance?

Of course not! I'm not a fool to believe that I could detain someone without cause.

But when they attract attention in such a way, they bring a little scrutiny unto themselves. As I said it's not a good idea to flip off a cop who knows your name and can check your license and warrant status ... or, to be driving a car with false registration tabs ... etc.

- Carl

 

[tranquility]

I accept Carl's explination as he seems to be what the vast majority of police officers are, honest cops who are doing their job. Having great experience with the government (I do taxes), I recommend everyone understands his comment and tries to avoid having the government look at you for any reason.

My political theory is in the mold of the Constitution being a "deal" where each of us gives up some of our god-given rights in order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty.

But, there is the warning to people whose...um...libertarian tendencies tend to make them not follow the democratically-enacted laws of our society in Carl's words. Many times all it would take is a different slant on what happened to change something that is in violation of rights into something which is perfectly OK. To believe that there are not some cops who know the law enough and who's morals cause them to believe "Well, if they're not good for this, there good for something else." justifies their hunches of criminality would be foolish. No one should think that because their rights are violated they get a get out of jail free card.